[hackerspaces] Invitation (was Fwd: Re: Black Highlighter + Important PS)
idnc_sk
idnc_sk at vpslab.org
Tue Jul 11 22:26:02 CEST 2017
One think I forgot to copy-paste
> You are just shitting all over that. You've provided no better
> alternative. That's not constructive. It's just flame bait man.
/I can't, If I could, I would not be here. Its saddens me, but I can't
really//
//offer a solution. I can only pinpoint a few basic tricks the power is
using, //
//some of the mistakes people are doing. Other than that, I'm stuck! and //
//frustrated that people who actually could make a difference are
getting manipulated//
//by individuals like Cecilia.//
/
/On 07/11/2017 10:21 PM, idnc_sk wrote:
/
>
> Well,
>
> history is a difficult subject on it's own, I'd rather not make it
> a few orders of magnitude more difficult by letting ourselves drift
> into parallel universes / would-be timelines. I'm also not qualified
> to go in-depth in such a discussion, so lets keep it as high level as
> possible.
>
> First, let me point out how far we are getting from my original remark
> to Cecilia, nevertheless, I'm actually looking forward to write this
> reply.
>
> Before I'll do that /in-line/,
>
> 3 of the most profitable lies of our age are organized religion, our
> history, and as of today, the most successful enslavement regime ever
> in existence disquised under the term "democracy".
>
>
> The real turning-points / milestones in our history are never taught
> in schools*
>
>
> Now, with that out of the way ..
>
>
> On 07/11/2017 06:48 PM, Matt Joyce wrote:
>> I think you should stay out of south american politics. And I'm not
>> intending to invoke monroe doctrine. I used to live there, and I
>> stay out of it. It's not my place to involve myself in the
>> complexities there. I can reasonably say this though... there were
>> no good guys in any of the situations you are referring to.
> */
> /*/*#1*//Be stationed in a country != living in a country/
> */
> /*/*#2* /*/@"there were no good guys"/*
> /Keeping my proverbial distance from that machiavellianistic swamp //
> //called realpolitik, there are //*no*//hollywood-like good guys(well,
> there //
> //are** but they don't stick around for long so to speak). Everything //
> //boils down to interests***, and(for the point I'll try to make) how
> much //
> //breadcrumbs people at the bottom get while that interest is being //
> //attained. Pointing out how BRUTAL the US has been in maintaining its //
> //interests would unavoidably lead to the soviet paper tiger, which
> would //
> //probably evolve into a disc. about it's todays replacement - china. //
> //All of which are complicated matters on their own but don't worry,
> I'll //
> //wrap it up somehow ;)/
>> You want to cast some huge swathe of horribleness on US external
>> influence... fine... we've gone done stuck our proverbial dick in the
>> mashed potatoes plenty of times.
> -
>> But your country would still be a soviet satellite state without us,
> /*#3 *//Well, by this logic, if you'd staid out of WW1, we'd probably
> be //
> //united states of austria-hungary and had a more even, decentralized //
> //world. Probably the single reason why that old militaristic wreck of
> a monarch //Franc Jozef got manipulated into letting Franc Ferdinand get
> killed //was that FF was a huge admirer of USA. FF wanted to use *your*
> model //to solve hungarys decades-long nationalistic struggles(in
> which our //
> //nation played a small part in too) - instead of brute force. The
> _central_
> role of UK in facilitating both world wars is //something you never
> read about
> (well, Tragedy & Hope is one of the //books where you can get a feel,
> but it
> was made unreadable for most). //We could get even further - healthcare,
> social welfare and industrialization of africa - all hampered by the
> US(not
> only, looking at you Belgium, France), but it's more important to get
> //the
> account of our real history corrected before making statements like yours
> above. /
>> and as far as international active involvement goes historically...
>> the US has been the nicest super power to ever exist in global history.
> /*#4 *OK, the fact that you cared enough to remember this particular
> intellectual//
> //crutch/piece of propaganda, albeit being a very shallow one, gives
> at least//
> //some hope that I'm not replying to a militant psychopath. Power was
> never//
> //this centralized, thats the single biggest problem of our world
> today. UK and
> later //the US played a major role in it(you were the "muscle" doing
> the dirty work), //
> //so did ur globalised financial system. Everything you might have
> seen in your //
> //movies is a lie, you have been tricked. You are being tricked, never
> ever//
> //join the army./
>> So sure, we've fucked up. And continue to. But so far we're doing
>> better than anyone else yet.
> /*#5 *Did a roadtrip across the states couple of years ago, are you
> _sure_ this is //
> //still true? Your country was hijacked, you are being steered into
> the abyss, //
> //a new replacement is almost ready./
>> Feel free to hop in and do better. Or feel free to sit on the
>> sidelines. We are international and national fuckups. America was
>> founded by fuckups, for fuckups. We're proud of our fuckup heritage.
>> We're the bastard children of every other country. But that said...
>> we are doing better than others. You want to lead... lead. You
>> don't want to.. then follow or get out of the way.
> /*#6 *There is so much historical details missing that would change
> your viewpoint(s), that
> it does//not even make sense to start addressing this point/
>> I am down with people calling out the US for it's mistakes. It's a
>> fundamental tenant of a free society. Enshrined in the magna carta.
>> But, if you want to just say shit could be better... well that's not
>> constructive. Go make it better. Cecilia is trying to make shit better.
> /*#7 *//No, she might be thinking that she does/
>> You are just shitting all over that. You've provided no better
>> alternative. That's not constructive. It's just flame bait man.
>> You have some solid concerns... but I don't see you following them up
>> with a solution. And frankly... at some level, all activism requires
>> an above board legal frameworked interaction with the world...
>> otherwise they end up like the palestinian liberation movement,
>> trapped by their own extremists incapable of any meaningful traction,
>> forever the victim of a nation with a better political and public
>> outreach.
> /*#8 *//This is a slippery slope, a land mine, some of your
> presumptions are incorrect//
> //but I won't go there, sry./
>> Sure sometimes they need their own backchannels and clandestine
>> components. But they need the above board shit just as badly.
>>
>> Change is dangerous. Always has been. Always will be. But our
>> little nation of fuckups have proven that fucking up is definitely
>> better than hoping shit gets better and not fucking up.
> /*#9 *Whatever you might be thinking of me or my opinions, we are
> sitting in the same//
> //boat, except with different propaganda bubbles build around us. //
>
> Had to truncate the email because of /
> /"Message body is too big: 56391 bytes with a limit of 40 KB"
>
> /
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>> fuckups for the win.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 12:16 PM, idnc_sk <idnc_sk at vpslab.org
>> <mailto:idnc_sk at vpslab.org>> wrote:
>>
>> :)
>>
>> I'd like to point that it was the US military who actively
>> removed almost every single
>> democratically elected leader in south america, africa and partly
>> in asia whenever their
>> pro-people "ideology" interfered with corporate interests. Not
>> "US" interests, not with
>> the interests of "US" citizens, with corporate interests.
>>
>> [Harold Pinter on US foreign policy]
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flvLfSSR1d4
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flvLfSSR1d4>
>>
>>
>> On 07/11/2017 06:09 PM, Matt Joyce wrote:
>>> I'd like to point out it was the US military that basically
>>> built the internet.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 11:29 AM, idnc_sk <idnc_sk at vpslab.org
>>> <mailto:idnc_sk at vpslab.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I would definitely dial that enthusiasm down a little.
>>> Anyone who cared to check
>>> knows how important of a role Stanford plays as an arm of
>>> the military industrial
>>> complex. Regardless of how many "transformations" LTT
>>> (claims to have) underwent,
>>> we are not living in some fairyland! Love and music are both
>>> great, I do enjoy
>>> SF "yt" lectures, nevertheless there is no room for naivety,
>>> no time to waste
>>> on projects / initiatives steered to lead nowhere. Without
>>> going into details,
>>> pleas please please don't be this naive, you are actually
>>> harming people. Let me put
>>> it clearly, people might *die* because of such naivety. How
>>> many activists/reporters/
>>> whistle-blowers died because of people like you? How many
>>> hundreds if not thousands
>>> fell victim to wikileaks and all the "good" people knowingly
>>> or unknowingly propagating
>>> their carefully constructed image? Do you _know_ who the
>>> people in that org are?
>>>
>>> No, you don't
>>>
>>> Please, don't harm people
>>>
>>>
>>> <3 <3 <3
>>>
>>> idnc_sk
>>>
>>>
>>>
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