[hackerspaces] Invitation (was Fwd: Re: Black Highlighter + Important PS)

Tue Jul 11 22:25:08 CEST 2017

None of that was constructive in any way man.

On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 4:21 PM, idnc_sk <idnc_sk at vpslab.org> wrote:

> Well,
>
> history is a difficult subject on it's own, I'd rather not make it
> a few orders of magnitude more difficult by letting ourselves drift
> into parallel universes / would-be timelines. I'm also not qualified
> to go in-depth in such a discussion, so lets keep it as high level as
> possible.
>
> First, let me point out how far we are getting from my original remark
> to Cecilia, nevertheless, I'm actually looking forward to write this
> reply.
>
> Before I'll do that *in-line*,
>
> 3 of the most profitable lies of our age are organized religion, our
> history, and as of today, the most successful enslavement regime ever
> in existence disquised under the term "democracy".
>
>
> The real turning-points / milestones in our history are never taught
> in schools*
>
> Now, with that out of the way ..
>
>
> On 07/11/2017 06:48 PM, Matt Joyce wrote:
>
> I think you should stay out of south american politics.  And I'm not
> intending to invoke monroe doctrine.  I used to live there, and I stay out
> of it.  It's not my place to involve myself in the complexities there.  I
> can reasonably say this though... there were no good guys in any of the
> situations you are referring to.
>
>
> *#1** Be stationed in a country != living in a country*
>
> *#2 **@"there were no good guys"*
> *Keeping my proverbial distance from that machiavellianistic swamp *
> *called realpolitik, there are **no** hollywood-like good guys(well,
> there *
> *are** but they don't stick around for long so to speak). Everything *
> *boils down to interests***, and(for the point I'll try to make) how much *
> *breadcrumbs people at the bottom get while that interest is being *
> *attained. Pointing out how BRUTAL the US has been in maintaining its *
> *interests would unavoidably lead to the soviet paper tiger, which would *
> *probably evolve into a disc. about it's todays replacement - china. *
> *All of which are complicated matters on their own but don't worry, I'll *
> * wrap it up somehow ;)*
>
> You want to cast some huge swathe of horribleness on US external
> influence... fine... we've gone done stuck our proverbial dick in the
> mashed potatoes plenty of times.
>
> -
>
> But your country would still be a soviet satellite state without us,
>
> *#3 **Well, by this logic, if you'd staid out of WW1, we'd probably be *
> * united states of austria-hungary and had a more even, decentralized *
>
> * world. Probably the single reason why that old militaristic wreck of a
> monarch *
> *Franc Jozef got manipulated into letting Franc Ferdinand get killed *
> *was that FF was a huge admirer of USA. FF wanted to use *your* model **to
> solve hungarys decades-long nationalistic struggles(in which our *
>
> * nation played a small part in too) - instead of brute force. The
> _central_ role of UK in facilitating both world wars is *
> *something you never read about (well, Tragedy & Hope is one of the *
> *books where you can get a feel, but it was made unreadable for most). *
>
> *We could get even further - healthcare, social welfare and
> industrialization of africa - all hampered by the US(not only, looking at
> you Belgium, France), but it's more important to get *
>
> *the account of our real history corrected before making statements like
> yours above. *
>
> and as far as international active involvement goes historically... the US
> has been the nicest super power to ever exist in global history.
>
> *#4 OK, the fact that you cared enough to remember this particular
> intellectual*
> * crutch/piece of propaganda, albeit being a very shallow one, gives at
> least*
> * some hope that I'm not replying to a militant psychopath. Power was
> never*
>
> * this centralized, thats the single biggest problem of our world today.
> UK and later **the US played a major role in it(you were the "muscle"
> doing the dirty work), *
> * so did ur globalised financial system. Everything you might have seen in
> your *
> * movies is a lie, you have been tricked. You are being tricked, never
> ever*
> * join the army.*
>
> So sure, we've fucked up.  And continue to.  But so far we're doing better
> than anyone else yet.
>
> *#5 Did a roadtrip across the states couple of years ago, are you _sure_
> this is *
> * still true? Your country was hijacked, you are being steered into the
> abyss, *
> * a new replacement is almost ready.*
>
> Feel free to hop in and do better.  Or feel free to sit on the sidelines.
> We are international and national fuckups.  America was founded by fuckups,
> for fuckups.  We're proud of our fuckup heritage.  We're the bastard
> children of every other country.  But that said... we are doing better than
> others.  You want to lead... lead.  You don't want to.. then follow or get
> out of the way.
>
>
> *#6 There is so much historical details missing that would change your
> viewpoint(s), that it does** not even make sense to start addressing this
> point*
>
> I am down with people calling out the US for it's mistakes.  It's a
> fundamental tenant of a free society.  Enshrined in the magna carta.  But,
> if you want to just say shit could be better... well that's not
> constructive.  Go make it better.  Cecilia is trying to make shit better.
>
> *#7 **No, she might be thinking that she does*
>
>   You are just shitting all over that.  You've provided no better
> alternative.  That's not constructive.  It's just flame bait man.
> You have some solid concerns... but I don't see you following them up with
> a solution.  And frankly... at some level, all activism requires an above
> board legal frameworked interaction with the world... otherwise they end up
> like the palestinian liberation movement, trapped by their own extremists
> incapable of any meaningful traction, forever the victim of a nation with a
> better political and public outreach.
>
> *#8 **This is a slippery slope, a land mine, some of your presumptions
> are incorrect*
> * but I won't go there, sry.*
>
> Sure sometimes they need their own backchannels and clandestine
> components.  But they need the above board shit just as badly.
>
> Change is dangerous.  Always has been.  Always will be.  But our little
> nation of fuckups have proven that fucking up is definitely better than
> hoping shit gets better and not fucking up.
>
> *#9 Whatever you might be thinking of me or my opinions, we are sitting in
> the same*
> * boat, except with different propaganda bubbles build around us. *
>
> * Had to truncate the email because of *
>
>
> *"Message body is too big: 56391 bytes with a limit of 40 KB" *
>
>
> -Matt
>
> fuckups for the win.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 12:16 PM, idnc_sk <idnc_sk at vpslab.org> wrote:
>
>> :)
>>
>> I'd like to point that it was the US military who actively removed almost
>> every single
>> democratically elected leader in south america, africa and partly in asia
>> whenever their
>> pro-people "ideology" interfered with corporate interests. Not "US"
>> interests, not with
>> the interests of "US" citizens, with corporate interests.
>>
>> [Harold Pinter on US foreign policy]
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flvLfSSR1d4
>>
>> On 07/11/2017 06:09 PM, Matt Joyce wrote:
>>
>> I'd like to point out it was the US military that basically built the
>> internet.
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 11, 2017 at 11:29 AM, idnc_sk <idnc_sk at vpslab.org> wrote:
>>
>>> I would definitely dial that enthusiasm down a little. Anyone who cared
>>> to check
>>> knows how important of a role Stanford plays as an arm of the military
>>> industrial
>>> complex. Regardless of how many "transformations" LTT (claims to have)
>>> underwent,
>>> we are not living in some fairyland! Love and music are both great, I do
>>> enjoy
>>> SF "yt" lectures, nevertheless there is no room for naivety, no time to
>>> waste
>>> on projects / initiatives steered to lead  nowhere. Without going into
>>> details,
>>> pleas please please don't be this naive, you are actually harming
>>> people. Let me put
>>> it clearly, people might *die* because of such naivety. How many
>>> activists/reporters/
>>> whistle-blowers died because of people like you? How many hundreds if
>>> not thousands
>>> fell victim to wikileaks and all the "good" people knowingly or
>>> unknowingly propagating
>>> their carefully constructed image? Do you _know_ who the people in that
>>> org are?
>>>
>>> No, you don't
>>>
>>> Please, don't harm people
>>>
>>>
>>> <3 <3 <3
>>>
>>> idnc_sk
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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