[hackerspaces] Leadership abusing powers. Bullying. Extraordinary General Meetings.

peter phm at riseup.net
Thu Feb 26 00:01:07 CET 2015

On 25/02/15 18:56, Edward L Platt wrote:
> I have to say, I really love this thread. It contains some clear 
> examples of the very best and very worst in hackerspace culture.

Interesting. Would you care to give us a summary of what you think are 
the best and worst things?

> On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Red Davies <noiddicle at gmail.com 
> <mailto:noiddicle at gmail.com>> wrote:
>     So I'm going to regret this...
>     On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 12:51 PM, peter <phm at riseup.net
>     <mailto:phm at riseup.net>> wrote:
>     > I beg to differ. I don't care what the 'law' says. I care about
>     what is the
>     > right/moral thing to do.
>     I think we all care about what is "right/moral" Peter.  The issue of
>     course is that we disagree as to the right/moral thing to do in this
>     case.  The law is a parseable emotionless framework which is designed
>     to address this issue.  Is it perfect? no... but it provides a
>     consistent and known framework and sometimes that's the best we can
>     do.
>     > (there is no appeal process, but I can try to call an EGM, which
>     is what I'm
>     > doing)
>     Good!
>     > If your government starts committing genocide, would you say 'oh
>     well, they
>     > passed a law to make it legal, so there is nothing I can do?'.
>     I'm actually really disappointed with you that you erected that
>     specific straw-man.  You seem very intelligent so you know already in
>     advance why your argument is made of straw.
>     In a Hackerspace you volunteer to be a member until the bylaws as they
>     are written.  You are free to leave at any time.  When it comes to
>     government wanting to commit genocide of their own people those people
>     have no choice.
>     > I like philosophy/logic/reasoning/rhetoric/critical thinking. I
>     think it's
>     > good to practise these skills, and fun to do in it's own right.
>     Just like sex.  I like it, I think it's good to practice and fun to do
>     in its own right.  That still requires however consenting parties.
>     >The problem is people who don't like being told why they're wrong.
>     Sure, nobody does.  They are however in a position of leadership and
>     responsibility which means that they get to make the decisions because
>     they're the ones that have to deal with the consequences of the wrong
>     decisions being made.  The members have the ability to either:
>     0. Hold those individuals to account when it comes time to elections.
>     1. Just leave and do something less boring instead.
>     > Why don't they be all chill and just ignore me?
>     ... because as leaders of the organization they have to show
>     leadership and deal with PR.  Some allegations have to be responded
>     to.  If you make the same, tired assertions again and again then they
>     have to be answered to again and again.  This is exhausting.
>     There are what, over a thousand members of LHS.  Let's just take 1000
>     as a round number.  If every member were to take up as much resources
>     as you are then there wouldn't be an LHS.  That doesn't mean that
>     people shouldn't engage or shouldn't complain.  It means that people
>     should respect those people's time and not waste it over thrown away
>     pasta.
>     Proportionality please.
>     That's it.  Please respect the time of the volunteers.  They sacrifice
>     their own project time so others can work on theirs.
>     Red
>     _______________________________________________
>     Discuss mailing list
>     Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org <mailto:Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org>
>     http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> -- 
> Edward L. Platt
> http://elplatt.com
> http://civic.mit.edu/users/elplatt
> http://i3detroit.com
> @elplatt <http://twitter.com/elplatt>
> This electronic mail message was sent from my desktop personal 
> computer.  Please forgive any long-winded, overly-prosaic ramblings.
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

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