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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 25/02/15 18:56, Edward L Platt
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAKb0FmFpYmg7N87zFPMJw=Uipg5Jffm1CQaOuAwJ=TtVXsX4OA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">I have to say, I really love this thread. It
contains some clear examples of the very best and very worst in
hackerspace culture.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Interesting. Would you care to give us a summary of what you think
are the best and worst things?<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAKb0FmFpYmg7N87zFPMJw=Uipg5Jffm1CQaOuAwJ=TtVXsX4OA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Red
Davies <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:noiddicle@gmail.com" target="_blank">noiddicle@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">So I'm
going to regret this...<br>
<span class=""><br>
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 12:51 PM, peter <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:phm@riseup.net">phm@riseup.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
> I beg to differ. I don't care what the 'law' says. I
care about what is the<br>
> right/moral thing to do.<br>
<br>
</span>I think we all care about what is "right/moral"
Peter. The issue of<br>
course is that we disagree as to the right/moral thing to do
in this<br>
case. The law is a parseable emotionless framework which is
designed<br>
to address this issue. Is it perfect? no... but it provides
a<br>
consistent and known framework and sometimes that's the best
we can<br>
<span class="">do.<br>
<br>
> (there is no appeal process, but I can try to call an
EGM, which is what I'm<br>
> doing)<br>
<br>
</span>Good!<br>
<span class=""><br>
> If your government starts committing genocide, would
you say 'oh well, they<br>
> passed a law to make it legal, so there is nothing I
can do?'.<br>
<br>
</span>I'm actually really disappointed with you that you
erected that<br>
specific straw-man. You seem very intelligent so you know
already in<br>
advance why your argument is made of straw.<br>
<br>
In a Hackerspace you volunteer to be a member until the
bylaws as they<br>
are written. You are free to leave at any time. When it
comes to<br>
government wanting to commit genocide of their own people
those people<br>
have no choice.<br>
<span class=""><br>
> I like philosophy/logic/reasoning/rhetoric/critical
thinking. I think it's<br>
> good to practise these skills, and fun to do in it's
own right.<br>
<br>
</span>Just like sex. I like it, I think it's good to
practice and fun to do<br>
in its own right. That still requires however consenting
parties.<br>
<span class=""><br>
>The problem is people who don't like being told why
they're wrong.<br>
<br>
</span>Sure, nobody does. They are however in a position of
leadership and<br>
responsibility which means that they get to make the
decisions because<br>
they're the ones that have to deal with the consequences of
the wrong<br>
decisions being made. The members have the ability to
either:<br>
<br>
0. Hold those individuals to account when it comes time to
elections.<br>
1. Just leave and do something less boring instead.<br>
<span class=""><br>
<br>
> Why don't they be all chill and just ignore me?<br>
<br>
</span>... because as leaders of the organization they have
to show<br>
leadership and deal with PR. Some allegations have to be
responded<br>
to. If you make the same, tired assertions again and again
then they<br>
have to be answered to again and again. This is exhausting.<br>
<br>
There are what, over a thousand members of LHS. Let's just
take 1000<br>
as a round number. If every member were to take up as much
resources<br>
as you are then there wouldn't be an LHS. That doesn't mean
that<br>
people shouldn't engage or shouldn't complain. It means
that people<br>
should respect those people's time and not waste it over
thrown away<br>
pasta.<br>
<br>
Proportionality please.<br>
<br>
That's it. Please respect the time of the volunteers. They
sacrifice<br>
their own project time so others can work on theirs.<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
<br>
Red<br>
</font></span>
<div class="HOEnZb">
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</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
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-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">Edward L. Platt
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://elplatt.com"
target="_blank">http://elplatt.com</a></div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://civic.mit.edu/users/elplatt"
target="_blank">http://civic.mit.edu/users/elplatt</a></div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://i3detroit.com"
target="_blank">http://i3detroit.com</a></div>
<div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://twitter.com/elplatt" target="_blank">@elplatt</a></div>
<div><br>
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<div>This electronic mail message was sent from my desktop
personal computer. Please forgive any long-winded,
overly-prosaic ramblings.</div>
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