[hackerspaces] Leadership abusing powers. Bullying. Extraordinary General Meetings.

peter phm at riseup.net
Wed Feb 25 23:21:11 CET 2015

On 25/02/15 19:18, michael howard wrote:
> You are not in Kansas anymore.
> The hackerspace is not the same as your day job.

Errr. I'm not sure what your point is.

> 2015-02-25 15:56 GMT-03:00 Edward L Platt <ed at elplatt.com 
> <mailto:ed at elplatt.com>>:
>     I have to say, I really love this thread. It contains some clear
>     examples of the very best and very worst in hackerspace culture.
>     On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Red Davies <noiddicle at gmail.com
>     <mailto:noiddicle at gmail.com>> wrote:
>         So I'm going to regret this...
>         On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 12:51 PM, peter <phm at riseup.net
>         <mailto:phm at riseup.net>> wrote:
>         > I beg to differ. I don't care what the 'law' says. I care
>         about what is the
>         > right/moral thing to do.
>         I think we all care about what is "right/moral" Peter.  The
>         issue of
>         course is that we disagree as to the right/moral thing to do
>         in this
>         case.  The law is a parseable emotionless framework which is
>         designed
>         to address this issue.  Is it perfect? no... but it provides a
>         consistent and known framework and sometimes that's the best
>         we can
>         do.
>         > (there is no appeal process, but I can try to call an EGM,
>         which is what I'm
>         > doing)
>         Good!
>         > If your government starts committing genocide, would you say
>         'oh well, they
>         > passed a law to make it legal, so there is nothing I can do?'.
>         I'm actually really disappointed with you that you erected that
>         specific straw-man.  You seem very intelligent so you know
>         already in
>         advance why your argument is made of straw.
>         In a Hackerspace you volunteer to be a member until the bylaws
>         as they
>         are written.  You are free to leave at any time. When it comes to
>         government wanting to commit genocide of their own people
>         those people
>         have no choice.
>         > I like philosophy/logic/reasoning/rhetoric/critical
>         thinking. I think it's
>         > good to practise these skills, and fun to do in it's own right.
>         Just like sex.  I like it, I think it's good to practice and
>         fun to do
>         in its own right.  That still requires however consenting parties.
>         >The problem is people who don't like being told why they're
>         wrong.
>         Sure, nobody does.  They are however in a position of
>         leadership and
>         responsibility which means that they get to make the decisions
>         because
>         they're the ones that have to deal with the consequences of
>         the wrong
>         decisions being made.  The members have the ability to either:
>         0. Hold those individuals to account when it comes time to
>         elections.
>         1. Just leave and do something less boring instead.
>         > Why don't they be all chill and just ignore me?
>         ... because as leaders of the organization they have to show
>         leadership and deal with PR.  Some allegations have to be
>         responded
>         to.  If you make the same, tired assertions again and again
>         then they
>         have to be answered to again and again.  This is exhausting.
>         There are what, over a thousand members of LHS. Let's just
>         take 1000
>         as a round number.  If every member were to take up as much
>         resources
>         as you are then there wouldn't be an LHS.  That doesn't mean that
>         people shouldn't engage or shouldn't complain.  It means that
>         people
>         should respect those people's time and not waste it over
>         thrown away
>         pasta.
>         Proportionality please.
>         That's it.  Please respect the time of the volunteers.  They
>         sacrifice
>         their own project time so others can work on theirs.
>         Red
>         _______________________________________________
>         Discuss mailing list
>         Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
>         <mailto:Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org>
>         http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

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