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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 25/02/15 19:18, michael howard
wrote:<br>
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<blockquote
cite="mid:CALgzF_TZuaABMg-DUek3yp7gZYis8Ei2=7870-smBxUE-C4Uaw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>You are not in Kansas anymore. </div>
<div><br>
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<div>The hackerspace is not the same as your day job. <br>
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<br>
Errr. I'm not sure what your point is.<br>
<br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CALgzF_TZuaABMg-DUek3yp7gZYis8Ei2=7870-smBxUE-C4Uaw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2015-02-25 15:56 GMT-03:00 Edward L
Platt <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ed@elplatt.com" target="_blank">ed@elplatt.com</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">I have to say, I really love this thread. It
contains some clear examples of the very best and very
worst in hackerspace culture.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
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<div class="h5"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 1:54
PM, Red Davies <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:noiddicle@gmail.com"
target="_blank">noiddicle@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">So
I'm going to regret this...<br>
<span><br>
On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 12:51 PM, peter <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:phm@riseup.net" target="_blank">phm@riseup.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
> I beg to differ. I don't care what the
'law' says. I care about what is the<br>
> right/moral thing to do.<br>
<br>
</span>I think we all care about what is
"right/moral" Peter. The issue of<br>
course is that we disagree as to the right/moral
thing to do in this<br>
case. The law is a parseable emotionless
framework which is designed<br>
to address this issue. Is it perfect? no... but
it provides a<br>
consistent and known framework and sometimes
that's the best we can<br>
<span>do.<br>
<br>
> (there is no appeal process, but I can try
to call an EGM, which is what I'm<br>
> doing)<br>
<br>
</span>Good!<br>
<span><br>
> If your government starts committing
genocide, would you say 'oh well, they<br>
> passed a law to make it legal, so there is
nothing I can do?'.<br>
<br>
</span>I'm actually really disappointed with you
that you erected that<br>
specific straw-man. You seem very intelligent so
you know already in<br>
advance why your argument is made of straw.<br>
<br>
In a Hackerspace you volunteer to be a member
until the bylaws as they<br>
are written. You are free to leave at any time.
When it comes to<br>
government wanting to commit genocide of their own
people those people<br>
have no choice.<br>
<span><br>
> I like
philosophy/logic/reasoning/rhetoric/critical
thinking. I think it's<br>
> good to practise these skills, and fun to
do in it's own right.<br>
<br>
</span>Just like sex. I like it, I think it's
good to practice and fun to do<br>
in its own right. That still requires however
consenting parties.<br>
<span><br>
>The problem is people who don't like being
told why they're wrong.<br>
<br>
</span>Sure, nobody does. They are however in a
position of leadership and<br>
responsibility which means that they get to make
the decisions because<br>
they're the ones that have to deal with the
consequences of the wrong<br>
decisions being made. The members have the
ability to either:<br>
<br>
0. Hold those individuals to account when it comes
time to elections.<br>
1. Just leave and do something less boring
instead.<br>
<span><br>
<br>
> Why don't they be all chill and just ignore
me?<br>
<br>
</span>... because as leaders of the organization
they have to show<br>
leadership and deal with PR. Some allegations
have to be responded<br>
to. If you make the same, tired assertions again
and again then they<br>
have to be answered to again and again. This is
exhausting.<br>
<br>
There are what, over a thousand members of LHS.
Let's just take 1000<br>
as a round number. If every member were to take
up as much resources<br>
as you are then there wouldn't be an LHS. That
doesn't mean that<br>
people shouldn't engage or shouldn't complain. It
means that people<br>
should respect those people's time and not waste
it over thrown away<br>
pasta.<br>
<br>
Proportionality please.<br>
<br>
That's it. Please respect the time of the
volunteers. They sacrifice<br>
their own project time so others can work on
theirs.<br>
<span><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
<br>
Red<br>
</font></span>
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