[hackerspaces] Hackers, feminism, and bullying

[Al Billings]

AKA "woman or other minority raises concern, dominant group responds with criticisms of how concern was stated rather than addressing concern." 

-- 
Al Billings
http://www.openbuddha.com
http://makehacklearn.org


On Friday, January 18, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Al Billings wrote:

> It has been linked to before, not that people bothered to read it. 
> 
> http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Tone_argument 
> 
> -- 
> Al Billings
> http://www.openbuddha.com
> http://makehacklearn.org
> 
> 
> On Friday, January 18, 2013 at 4:26 PM, Matt Joyce wrote:
> 
> > Al are you attempting to create new terms or is that like a thing somewhere?
> > 
> > On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Al Billings <albill at openbuddha.com (mailto:albill at openbuddha.com)> wrote:
> > > aka "Tone Policing"
> > > 
> > > --
> > > Al Billings
> > > http://www.openbuddha.com
> > > http://makehacklearn.org
> > > 
> > > On Friday, January 18, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Kevin Mitnick wrote:
> > > 
> > > Rachel,
> > > 
> > > I think that it is rather accusatory of you to think that I am generalizing
> > > here. You selectively removed my statement that I may be wrong on my
> > > judgement of your character. Here's the line in question in its entirety:
> > > 
> > > > Your statement in my mind gives me the perception of you being a bully,
> > > > but being that we're in a virtual space, the words you use may not
> > > > necessarily indicate that you're the person I think you might be.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > You took offense to the use of "bully" and I don't blame you, but I think it
> > > was rather ill-advised for you to remove the statement that my perception of
> > > you may be wrong just like how your perception of me could be wrong too. I
> > > have never met you and as a result do not have any prejudice towards you. I
> > > think it's rather disingenuous of you to focus on this one particular line
> > > and then not bother to work with the statements I made later on.
> > > 
> > > I believe that you'll go a lot further with people if you would avoid a
> > > kyriarchical state of mind that you seem to be demonstrating on this mailing
> > > list. How about addressing the important points at hand rather than
> > > nitpicking on items that are not of importance because this is the reason
> > > why we cannot engage in proper, civil conversation.
> > > 
> > > Kevin Mitnick
> > > (May or may not be the Kevin you think I am)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ________________________________
> > > Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 15:51:28 -0800
> > > From: rachelyra at gmail.com (mailto:rachelyra at gmail.com)
> > > To: discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org (mailto:discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org)
> > > Subject: Re: [hackerspaces] Hackers, feminism, and bullying
> > > 
> > > Hi kevin, I want to point out that I haven't said 'all', 'most', or 'many',
> > > or used judgemental adjectives like 'horrible', but simply described
> > > patterns of behavior that exist and sometimes occur, in the context of
> > > discussion where they are relevant.
> > > > > It is difficult to even talk about gender/race/heteronormativity because
> > > > > as soon as it comes up, people from the named dominant group panic, get
> > > > > defensive, scold the complainers, claim that they are being
> > > > > reverse-discriminated.
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > This is akin to me saying that all feminists are "horrible individuals"
> > > > and are "bullies" which is far from the truth. Your statement in my mind
> > > > gives me the perception of you being a bully,
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > ...and now somehow we're talking about an exaggerated comparison and false
> > > generalization you've made, and by extension you, and your feelings, instead
> > > of continuing direct discussion of the topic at hand.
> > > Just pointing that out, in the hopes of illuminating yet another rote
> > > pattern of behavior as well as perhaps continuing to discuss (or
> > > demonstrate, I guess) ways in which technology spaces can be unwelcoming to
> > > new ideas while professing openmindedness.
> > > Now all these words are getting to be too much for my little old brain. I
> > > guess I'll go back to my sewing.
> > > R.
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list
> > > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org (mailto:Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org)
> > > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Discuss mailing list
> > > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org (mailto:Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org)
> > > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Discuss mailing list
> > > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org (mailto:Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org)
> > > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> > > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
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> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

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