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AKA "woman or other minority raises concern, dominant group responds with criticisms of how concern was stated rather than addressing concern."
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<div><div><br></div><div>-- </div><div>Al Billings</div><div>http://www.openbuddha.com</div><div>http://makehacklearn.org</div><div><br></div></div>
<p style="color: #A0A0A8;">On Friday, January 18, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Al Billings wrote:</p>
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It has been linked to before, not that people bothered to read it.
</div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Tone_argument">http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Tone_argument</a></div>
<div><div><br></div><div>-- </div><div>Al Billings</div><div><a href="http://www.openbuddha.com">http://www.openbuddha.com</a></div><div><a href="http://makehacklearn.org">http://makehacklearn.org</a></div><div><br></div></div>
<p style="color: #A0A0A8;">On Friday, January 18, 2013 at 4:26 PM, Matt Joyce wrote:</p><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<span><div><div><div>Al are you attempting to create new terms or is that like a thing somewhere?</div><div><br></div><div>On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Al Billings <<a href="mailto:albill@openbuddha.com">albill@openbuddha.com</a>> wrote:</div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div>aka "Tone Policing"</div><div><br></div><div>--</div><div>Al Billings</div><div><a href="http://www.openbuddha.com">http://www.openbuddha.com</a></div><div><a href="http://makehacklearn.org">http://makehacklearn.org</a></div><div><br></div><div>On Friday, January 18, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Kevin Mitnick wrote:</div><div><br></div><div>Rachel,</div><div><br></div><div>I think that it is rather accusatory of you to think that I am generalizing</div><div>here. You selectively removed my statement that I may be wrong on my</div><div>judgement of your character. Here's the line in question in its entirety:</div><div><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div>Your statement in my mind gives me the perception of you being a bully,</div><div>but being that we're in a virtual space, the words you use may not</div><div>necessarily indicate that you're the person I think you might be.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>You took offense to the use of "bully" and I don't blame you, but I think it</div><div>was rather ill-advised for you to remove the statement that my perception of</div><div>you may be wrong just like how your perception of me could be wrong too. I</div><div>have never met you and as a result do not have any prejudice towards you. I</div><div>think it's rather disingenuous of you to focus on this one particular line</div><div>and then not bother to work with the statements I made later on.</div><div><br></div><div>I believe that you'll go a lot further with people if you would avoid a</div><div>kyriarchical state of mind that you seem to be demonstrating on this mailing</div><div>list. How about addressing the important points at hand rather than</div><div>nitpicking on items that are not of importance because this is the reason</div><div>why we cannot engage in proper, civil conversation.</div><div><br></div><div>Kevin Mitnick</div><div>(May or may not be the Kevin you think I am)</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>________________________________</div><div>Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 15:51:28 -0800</div><div>From: <a href="mailto:rachelyra@gmail.com">rachelyra@gmail.com</a></div><div>To: <a href="mailto:discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org">discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a></div><div>Subject: Re: [hackerspaces] Hackers, feminism, and bullying</div><div><br></div><div>Hi kevin, I want to point out that I haven't said 'all', 'most', or 'many',</div><div>or used judgemental adjectives like 'horrible', but simply described</div><div>patterns of behavior that exist and sometimes occur, in the context of</div><div>discussion where they are relevant.</div><blockquote type="cite"><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div>It is difficult to even talk about gender/race/heteronormativity because</div><div>as soon as it comes up, people from the named dominant group panic, get</div><div>defensive, scold the complainers, claim that they are being</div><div>reverse-discriminated.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This is akin to me saying that all feminists are "horrible individuals"</div><div>and are "bullies" which is far from the truth. Your statement in my mind</div><div>gives me the perception of you being a bully,</div></div></blockquote><div>...and now somehow we're talking about an exaggerated comparison and false</div><div>generalization you've made, and by extension you, and your feelings, instead</div><div>of continuing direct discussion of the topic at hand.</div><div>Just pointing that out, in the hopes of illuminating yet another rote</div><div>pattern of behavior as well as perhaps continuing to discuss (or</div><div>demonstrate, I guess) ways in which technology spaces can be unwelcoming to</div><div>new ideas while professing openmindedness.</div><div>Now all these words are getting to be too much for my little old brain. I</div><div>guess I'll go back to my sewing.</div><div>R.</div><div><br></div><div>_______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list</div><div><a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a></div><div><a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a></div><div>_______________________________________________</div><div>Discuss mailing list</div><div><a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a></div><div><a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>_______________________________________________</div><div>Discuss mailing list</div><div><a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a></div><div><a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a></div></div></blockquote><div>_______________________________________________</div><div>Discuss mailing list</div><div><a href="mailto:Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org">Discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a></div><div><a href="http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss">http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss</a></div></div></div></span>
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