[hackerspaces] Hackers, feminism, and bullying

[Al Billings]

It has been linked to before, not that people bothered to read it. 

http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Tone_argument 

-- 
Al Billings
http://www.openbuddha.com
http://makehacklearn.org


On Friday, January 18, 2013 at 4:26 PM, Matt Joyce wrote:

> Al are you attempting to create new terms or is that like a thing somewhere?
> 
> On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Al Billings <albill at openbuddha.com (mailto:albill at openbuddha.com)> wrote:
> > aka "Tone Policing"
> > 
> > --
> > Al Billings
> > http://www.openbuddha.com
> > http://makehacklearn.org
> > 
> > On Friday, January 18, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Kevin Mitnick wrote:
> > 
> > Rachel,
> > 
> > I think that it is rather accusatory of you to think that I am generalizing
> > here. You selectively removed my statement that I may be wrong on my
> > judgement of your character. Here's the line in question in its entirety:
> > 
> > > Your statement in my mind gives me the perception of you being a bully,
> > > but being that we're in a virtual space, the words you use may not
> > > necessarily indicate that you're the person I think you might be.
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > You took offense to the use of "bully" and I don't blame you, but I think it
> > was rather ill-advised for you to remove the statement that my perception of
> > you may be wrong just like how your perception of me could be wrong too. I
> > have never met you and as a result do not have any prejudice towards you. I
> > think it's rather disingenuous of you to focus on this one particular line
> > and then not bother to work with the statements I made later on.
> > 
> > I believe that you'll go a lot further with people if you would avoid a
> > kyriarchical state of mind that you seem to be demonstrating on this mailing
> > list. How about addressing the important points at hand rather than
> > nitpicking on items that are not of importance because this is the reason
> > why we cannot engage in proper, civil conversation.
> > 
> > Kevin Mitnick
> > (May or may not be the Kevin you think I am)
> > 
> > 
> > ________________________________
> > Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 15:51:28 -0800
> > From: rachelyra at gmail.com (mailto:rachelyra at gmail.com)
> > To: discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org (mailto:discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org)
> > Subject: Re: [hackerspaces] Hackers, feminism, and bullying
> > 
> > Hi kevin, I want to point out that I haven't said 'all', 'most', or 'many',
> > or used judgemental adjectives like 'horrible', but simply described
> > patterns of behavior that exist and sometimes occur, in the context of
> > discussion where they are relevant.
> > > > It is difficult to even talk about gender/race/heteronormativity because
> > > > as soon as it comes up, people from the named dominant group panic, get
> > > > defensive, scold the complainers, claim that they are being
> > > > reverse-discriminated.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > This is akin to me saying that all feminists are "horrible individuals"
> > > and are "bullies" which is far from the truth. Your statement in my mind
> > > gives me the perception of you being a bully,
> > > 
> > 
> > ...and now somehow we're talking about an exaggerated comparison and false
> > generalization you've made, and by extension you, and your feelings, instead
> > of continuing direct discussion of the topic at hand.
> > Just pointing that out, in the hopes of illuminating yet another rote
> > pattern of behavior as well as perhaps continuing to discuss (or
> > demonstrate, I guess) ways in which technology spaces can be unwelcoming to
> > new ideas while professing openmindedness.
> > Now all these words are getting to be too much for my little old brain. I
> > guess I'll go back to my sewing.
> > R.
> > 
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> > 
> > 
> > 
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> > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> > 
> 
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