[hackerspaces] Hackers, feminism, and bullying

[Matt Joyce]

That is mind bogglingly stupid.  And I don't mind saying so.  You can
quote me on that.

-Matt

On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:29 PM, Al Billings <albill at openbuddha.com> wrote:
> AKA "woman or other minority raises concern, dominant group responds with
> criticisms of how concern was stated rather than addressing concern."
>
> --
> Al Billings
> http://www.openbuddha.com
> http://makehacklearn.org
>
> On Friday, January 18, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Al Billings wrote:
>
> It has been linked to before, not that people bothered to read it.
>
> http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Tone_argument
>
> --
> Al Billings
> http://www.openbuddha.com
> http://makehacklearn.org
>
> On Friday, January 18, 2013 at 4:26 PM, Matt Joyce wrote:
>
> Al are you attempting to create new terms or is that like a thing somewhere?
>
> On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Al Billings <albill at openbuddha.com> wrote:
>
> aka "Tone Policing"
>
> --
> Al Billings
> http://www.openbuddha.com
> http://makehacklearn.org
>
> On Friday, January 18, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Kevin Mitnick wrote:
>
> Rachel,
>
> I think that it is rather accusatory of you to think that I am generalizing
> here. You selectively removed my statement that I may be wrong on my
> judgement of your character. Here's the line in question in its entirety:
>
> Your statement in my mind gives me the perception of you being a bully,
> but being that we're in a virtual space, the words you use may not
> necessarily indicate that you're the person I think you might be.
>
>
> You took offense to the use of "bully" and I don't blame you, but I think it
> was rather ill-advised for you to remove the statement that my perception of
> you may be wrong just like how your perception of me could be wrong too. I
> have never met you and as a result do not have any prejudice towards you. I
> think it's rather disingenuous of you to focus on this one particular line
> and then not bother to work with the statements I made later on.
>
> I believe that you'll go a lot further with people if you would avoid a
> kyriarchical state of mind that you seem to be demonstrating on this mailing
> list. How about addressing the important points at hand rather than
> nitpicking on items that are not of importance because this is the reason
> why we cannot engage in proper, civil conversation.
>
> Kevin Mitnick
> (May or may not be the Kevin you think I am)
>
>
> ________________________________
> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 15:51:28 -0800
> From: rachelyra at gmail.com
> To: discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> Subject: Re: [hackerspaces] Hackers, feminism, and bullying
>
> Hi kevin, I want to point out that I haven't said 'all', 'most', or 'many',
> or used judgemental adjectives like 'horrible', but simply described
> patterns of behavior that exist and sometimes occur, in the context of
> discussion where they are relevant.
>
> It is difficult to even talk about gender/race/heteronormativity because
> as soon as it comes up, people from the named dominant group panic, get
> defensive, scold the complainers, claim that they are being
> reverse-discriminated.
>
>
> This is akin to me saying that all feminists are "horrible individuals"
> and are "bullies" which is far from the truth. Your statement in my mind
> gives me the perception of you being a bully,
>
> ...and now somehow we're talking about an exaggerated comparison and false
> generalization you've made, and by extension you, and your feelings, instead
> of continuing direct discussion of the topic at hand.
> Just pointing that out, in the hopes of illuminating yet another rote
> pattern of behavior as well as perhaps continuing to discuss (or
> demonstrate, I guess) ways in which technology spaces can be unwelcoming to
> new ideas while professing openmindedness.
> Now all these words are getting to be too much for my little old brain. I
> guess I'll go back to my sewing.
> R.
>
> _______________________________________________ Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>