[hackerspaces] Firearms in Hackerspaces?

Mon Jan 14 21:54:31 CET 2013

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 3:48 PM, Matt Joyce <matt at nycresistor.com> wrote:

> I enjoy target shooting.  My mother uses a rifle regularly on
> woodchucks that create a hazard around her home.
>
> There are at least 2 non-killing human uses of a firearm right there.
>
Sure but you're not using your gun for that at the space.

>
> Let us not debate the ethics of fire arms.
>
> The question of why to have a fire arm in the space spans many issues.
>  As raised before some folks are required to carry a fire arm as part
> of their professional life.  That should not by itself immediately
> disenfranchise them in a community.
>
If they need them for work, they can use them for work. A member of the
armed forces is not going to be visiting a hackerspace while on duty. If a
cop is visiting a space while on duty you have much larger problems than
whether you are going to allow guns in.

>
> Some folks enjoy fire arms as a hobby.  Either in target shooting, or
> in hunting, or conceivably simply as an academic pursuit.  These folks
> would find the tools of a hackerspace useful to extend their hobby.
> And I suppose that could breed some conflict in a community as
> passions run high when discussing this issue.  Each space will know
> how to address that themselves.  I love the idea of requiring people
> working on fire arms to leave any ammunition at home.  There are also
> regional laws to take into consideration.
>
There are already open-access gun workshops where you can lathe your new
barrel or whatever.

>
> It is my hope that any discussion on this list remains open and
> accepting of the different viewpoints we all have.  Especially on a
> topic that can so easily blind us with emotion.
>
> -Matt
>
> On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 3:42 PM, Al Billings <albill at openbuddha.com>
> wrote:
> > Remind me again why I want guns in my hackerspace?
> >
> > I say this as someone who grew up shooting with hunting family too.
> >
> > --
> > Al Billings
> > http://www.openbuddha.com
> > http://makehacklearn.org
> >
> > On Monday, January 14, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Phillip Rhodes wrote:
> >
> > Because there is, in general, absolutely ZERO reason to think that
> > said single-use tool
> > would be directed at you, or even used at all. The truth is, at
> > least in the US, far less than
> > one half of one percent of civilian firearms are ever used in the
> > commission of a crime, much
> > less a homicide. And while everybody rants about the "gun violence"
> > problem, people conveniently
> > overlook two facts: 1. mass shootings are statistically rare to the
> > point of being nothing more than
> > noise in the signal. You're approximately as likely to be killed by a
> > lightning strike as to be killed in
> > a mass shooting. 2. Of the firearms deaths that *do* happen a
> > significant percentage are suicide, or involve
> > gang members / drug users killing / robbing each other. So, unless
> > you routinely have drug deals going down
> > in your space, or you invite the local Crips or Bloods chapter into
> > visit, it's absolutely ridiculous to be deathly
> > afraid of a firearm carried by a run-of-the-mill, law-abiding citizen.
> > Even more so if they have a concealed
> > carry permit, because the people who go to the effort to get their CCW
> > permits are even less likely to use their
> > firearms to commit a crime.
> >
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 3:33 PM, Michel Gallant <sfxman at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I was addressing Pete's equivocation of guns with other tools. A gun is a
> > tool for ending lives. Why is it insane to be afraid of having that
> > dangerous, single-use tool at a hackerspace?
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Phillip Rhodes <
> motley.crue.fan at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > If that were true, then how could anyone ever use a drill press, band
> > saw, lathe, etc.
> > I think having a healthy-respect for tools is one thing, but being
> > *afraid* of them is quite
> > something else. But maybe we're just debating semantics?
> >
> > At any rate, all tools can be dangerous and deserve to be used with care
> > and
> > the proper precautions. In that regard, how is a pistol any different
> > from a band-saw?
> >
> >
> > Phil
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 3:24 PM, Michel Gallant <sfxman at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Being afraid of tools that can rip your fingers off isn't insane, it's
> > healthy. You are insane to claim otherwise.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Mark Atwood <me at mark.atwood.name>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 9:16 AM, Pete Prodoehl <raster at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > Here's a quick question for US-based hacker/makerspaces... Do you
> > have a
> > firearms ban at your space, and if so, what are some of the reasons
> > behind
> > the decision?
> >
> >
> > We don't have a rule at our space. Our space is a member-oriented
> > space, no "general public" except as guests of members or as visitors
> > to specific private events.
> >
> > If such a rule was proposed, I would argue strongly against it. If
> > someone is a legal owner/carrier of a firearm, if we can't trust them
> > with their gun, we can't trust them with all the tools *either*.
> >
> > More generally, if someone in a makerspace is "afraid" of guns, that's
> > insane. They should be afraid of all the other tools too.
> >
> > ..m
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