[hackerspaces] Hackerspace drama, oh my!

Thu Jul 3 13:21:01 CEST 2014

On Thursday, July 03, 2014 11:21:29 Aurélien DESBRIÈRES wrote:
> just call them crackers.

I believe a more accurate term would be "toxic person". Again, as Naomi said, 
these folks think they're doing the space a favor. I'm certain many folks can 
name some "crackers" who have contributed to the current entropy problem at 
Noisebridge while they thought that their contributions were having a net 
positive effect on the space.

One that distinctly comes to mind was the front door camera. A newcomer to 
Noisebridge sought to "fix" the live camera for one reason or another. What 
ended up happening was the wires were pulled out, the camera disassembled, and 
the components dispersed throughout the space without any kind of discussion 
from the individual. Then they went elsewhere for the day and left things in 
that state.

A replacement camera was installed and I confronted them, where they said they 
were "hacking" the system to make it better. An explanation of the community's 
definition of a "positive contribution" ensued, but there was some rather 
vocal opposition to that.

I can't remember where I found this, but here's a couple of folks presenting 
how open source projects survive toxic people:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q52kFL8zVoM

A very good video to watch.

> 
> Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> writes:
> > Many people actively "hacking the hackerspace" believe they are doing
> > the hackerspace a favor.
> > 
> > It's telling that you quote from Plato.
> > 
> > Semantics can only get you so far.  At some point you have to
> > recognize when there are people in your midst whose moral compass
> > leads them to a very different place than you were expecting.
> > 
> > --Naomi
> > 
> > 
> > On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 12:04 AM, Aurélien DESBRIÈRES
> > 
> > <aurelien at hackers.camp> wrote:
> >> Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> writes:
> >>> "One should be permitted to hack a hackerspace, though in a non-
> >>> destructive fashion."
> >> 
> >> Hackers ... are not crackers.
> >> 
> >> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Hacker
> >> 
> >> It should be fine from hackerspaces to works on the importance of the
> >> choice of words.
> >> 
> >> "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul
> >> with evil." ~ Plato
> >> 
> >>> Permission implies that the right can be denied or that the activity
> >>> in question can be prevented...
> >>> 
> >>> On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 6:32 AM, Torrie Fischer 
<tdfischer at hackerbots.net> wrote:
> >>>> On Wednesday, July 02, 2014 13:44:01 David Potocnik wrote:
> >>>>> There's another perspective to this.
> >>>>> I guess Torrie & the hackers of Ackron are going to be okay - they
> >>>>> started a new space right? They moved their stuff and got another
> >>>>> lease and all is well?
> >>>> 
> >>>> Nope. Board took everything. They also took the $15k in the banking
> >>>> account
> >>>> and moved it to some other bank without informing the membership or
> >>>> anything, and is disregarding the portions of the bylaws that
> >>>> explicitly state such things need to have transparency.
> >>>> 
> >>>>> "Advice I give most folks starting a hackerspace, start a community
> >>>>> first.  Find the people you want to start the space with.  Worry about
> >>>>> that.  because at the end of the day, even if you don't have a space,
> >>>>> that community is worth way way more."
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> ...Or just simplify building spaces (sharing protocols & know-how),
> >>>>> build a lot of them and cross-pollinate (travel, hang out). Fork,
> >>>>> collaborate, merge. Set up varieties, name them and setup
> >>>>> instances of them. Find and argue about good practices and patterns
> >>>>> with whoever comes to this platform.
> >>>>> As the thing progresses on we'll keep having a clearer and clearer
> >>>>> cartography of different hacker belief systems, and a better idea of
> >>>>> how they can and cannot coexist.
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> There is the more stable isotopos: Coworking spaces, Makerspaces,
> >>>>> Fablabs.
> >>>>> I believe Hackerspaces and Hackbases (live-in hackerspaces) should be
> >>>>> unstable, and definitely not without politics.
> >>>>> They should be, and sometimes are, avantgarde experimental political
> >>>>> machines.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Well said. One should be permitted to hack a hackerspace, though in a
> >>>> non-
> >>>> destructive fashion.
> >>>> 
> >>>>> David
> >>>>> from CHT#1 hackbase /\/
> >>>>> http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Cyberhippietotalism
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> On 2 July 2014 04:07, Ryan Rix <ry at n.rix.si> wrote:
> >>>>> > matt <matt at nycresistor.com> writes:
> >>>>> >> I think this boils down to the dichotomy of hackerspace vs
> >>>>> >> co-working
> >>>>> >> space.
> >>>>> >> 
> >>>>> >> If you build up infrastructure and expect a community to show up in
> >>>>> >> it, don't be surprised if more than one community shows up, or the
> >>>>> >> community that shows up is not one you want to be a part of.
> >>>>> >> 
> >>>>> >> Noisebridge suffers the tragedy of the commons in a pretty severe
> >>>>> >> way... having had mole people living in their basement and bi-polar
> >>>>> >> homeless people show up and and claim they are 'sleep hacking'.
> >>>>> >> 
> >>>>> >> That's not what I am talking about. What I am talking about is the
> >>>>> >> last line in that piece :
> >>>>> >> 
> >>>>> >> "A lot of this can be traced to our collective inability to
> >>>>> >> remember
> >>>>> >> our core pillars of consensus, excellence, and do-ocracy. There is
> >>>>> >> no
> >>>>> >> one person or event that can be blamed. As a community, we failed
> >>>>> >> to
> >>>>> >> hold close the values we had. We were hacked by policy hackers."
> >>>>> >> 
> >>>>> >> Now I don't know anything about synhak... so I am just going to
> >>>>> >> speak
> >>>>> >> to the perspective brought forth by the person who wrote this
> >>>>> >> piece.
> >>>>> >> This is a person who enjoyed the community that arrived at synhak
> >>>>> >> in
> >>>>> >> the early days. As the space grew and changed and time went on, so
> >>>>> >> did
> >>>>> >> the culture and so did the community.
> >>>>> >> 
> >>>>> >> I think Torrie is talking specific solutions but not seeing the
> >>>>> >> forest
> >>>>> >> through the trees. When torrie talks about common values along side
> >>>>> >> mission statement, and limiting growth of new membership. What she
> >>>>> >> is
> >>>>> >> really talking about is fostering a community rather than
> >>>>> >> infrastructure. She's focusing more on being with the people she
> >>>>> >> wants
> >>>>> >> to be with, than focusing on building a space.
> >>>>> >> 
> >>>>> >> And I think that has worked out very well for NYC Resistor. We like
> >>>>> >> each other. We've liked each other with fairly decent success for
> >>>>> >> 5-6
> >>>>> >> years. And while folks have grown apart and there has been some
> >>>>> >> inevitable culture shift. The community has remained strong.
> >>>>> >> 
> >>>>> >> So, the answer is simple. Synhak like noisebridge built a space.
> >>>>> >> And
> >>>>> >> communities fought for it, and some took it and some lost it. Much
> >>>>> >> like noisebridge. NYC Resistor built a community in a coffee
> >>>>> >> shop...
> >>>>> >> everything else came later.
> >>>>> >> 
> >>>>> >> Advice I give most folks starting a hackerspace, start a community
> >>>>> >> first. Find the people you want to start the space with. Worry
> >>>>> >> about
> >>>>> >> that. because at the end of the day, even if you don't have a
> >>>>> >> space,
> >>>>> >> that community is worth way way more.
> >>>>> > 
> >>>>> > Well written, Matt.
> >>>>> > 
> >>>>> > r
> >>>>> > _______________________________________________
> >>>>> > Discuss mailing list
> >>>>> > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> >>>>> > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >>>>> 
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Discuss mailing list
> >>>>> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> >>>>> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >>>> 
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Discuss mailing list
> >>>> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> >>>> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
> >> 
> >> <#secure method=pgpmime mode=sign>
> >> 
> >> --
> >> Aurélien DESBRIÈRES
> >> Run Free - Run GNU.org
> 
> <#secure method=pgpmime mode=sign>
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