[hackerspaces] Hackerspace drama, oh my!

Aurélien DESBRIÈRES aurelien at hackers.camp
Thu Jul 3 15:10:06 CEST 2014 

Torrie Fischer <tdfischer at hackerbots.net> writes:

> On Thursday, July 03, 2014 11:21:29 Aurélien DESBRIÈRES wrote:
>> just call them crackers.
>
> I believe a more accurate term would be "toxic person".

That sounds correct.

I know that for some people "words" have no importance.

But the fact is that hackerspaces are great place.

Call someone a "hacker" should be a form of gratification for his great
works.

As gnu.org explain, media, create the confusion, we should spread the
correction, this could create "good" vocation ;-)

>Again, as Naomi said, 
> these folks think they're doing the space a favor. I'm certain many folks can 
> name some "crackers" who have contributed to the current entropy problem at 
> Noisebridge while they thought that their contributions were having a net 
> positive effect on the space.
>
> One that distinctly comes to mind was the front door camera. A newcomer to 
> Noisebridge sought to "fix" the live camera for one reason or another. What 
> ended up happening was the wires were pulled out, the camera disassembled, and 
> the components dispersed throughout the space without any kind of discussion 
> from the individual. Then they went elsewhere for the day and left things in 
> that state.
>
> A replacement camera was installed and I confronted them, where they said they 
> were "hacking" the system to make it better. An explanation of the community's 
> definition of a "positive contribution" ensued, but there was some rather 
> vocal opposition to that.
>
> I can't remember where I found this, but here's a couple of folks presenting 
> how open source projects survive toxic people:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q52kFL8zVoM
>
> A very good video to watch.
>
>> 
>> Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> writes:
>> > Many people actively "hacking the hackerspace" believe they are doing
>> > the hackerspace a favor.
>> > 
>> > It's telling that you quote from Plato.
>> > 
>> > Semantics can only get you so far.  At some point you have to
>> > recognize when there are people in your midst whose moral compass
>> > leads them to a very different place than you were expecting.
>> > 
>> > --Naomi
>> > 
>> > 
>> > On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 12:04 AM, Aurélien DESBRIÈRES
>> > 
>> > <aurelien at hackers.camp> wrote:
>> >> Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> writes:
>> >>> "One should be permitted to hack a hackerspace, though in a non-
>> >>> destructive fashion."
>> >> 
>> >> Hackers ... are not crackers.
>> >> 
>> >> http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/words-to-avoid.html#Hacker
>> >> 
>> >> It should be fine from hackerspaces to works on the importance of the
>> >> choice of words.
>> >> 
>> >> "False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the soul
>> >> with evil." ~ Plato
>> >> 
>> >>> Permission implies that the right can be denied or that the activity
>> >>> in question can be prevented...
>> >>> 
>> >>> On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 6:32 AM, Torrie Fischer 
> <tdfischer at hackerbots.net> wrote:
>> >>>> On Wednesday, July 02, 2014 13:44:01 David Potocnik wrote:
>> >>>>> There's another perspective to this.
>> >>>>> I guess Torrie & the hackers of Ackron are going to be okay - they
>> >>>>> started a new space right? They moved their stuff and got another
>> >>>>> lease and all is well?
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> Nope. Board took everything. They also took the $15k in the banking
>> >>>> account
>> >>>> and moved it to some other bank without informing the membership or
>> >>>> anything, and is disregarding the portions of the bylaws that
>> >>>> explicitly state such things need to have transparency.
>> >>>> 
>> >>>>> "Advice I give most folks starting a hackerspace, start a community
>> >>>>> first.  Find the people you want to start the space with.  Worry about
>> >>>>> that.  because at the end of the day, even if you don't have a space,
>> >>>>> that community is worth way way more."
>> >>>>> 
>> >>>>> ...Or just simplify building spaces (sharing protocols & know-how),
>> >>>>> build a lot of them and cross-pollinate (travel, hang out). Fork,
>> >>>>> collaborate, merge. Set up varieties, name them and setup
>> >>>>> instances of them. Find and argue about good practices and patterns
>> >>>>> with whoever comes to this platform.
>> >>>>> As the thing progresses on we'll keep having a clearer and clearer
>> >>>>> cartography of different hacker belief systems, and a better idea of
>> >>>>> how they can and cannot coexist.
>> >>>>> 
>> >>>>> There is the more stable isotopos: Coworking spaces, Makerspaces,
>> >>>>> Fablabs.
>> >>>>> I believe Hackerspaces and Hackbases (live-in hackerspaces) should be
>> >>>>> unstable, and definitely not without politics.
>> >>>>> They should be, and sometimes are, avantgarde experimental political
>> >>>>> machines.
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> Well said. One should be permitted to hack a hackerspace, though in a
>> >>>> non-
>> >>>> destructive fashion.
>> >>>> 
>> >>>>> David
>> >>>>> from CHT#1 hackbase /\/
>> >>>>> http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/Cyberhippietotalism
>> >>>>> 
>> >>>>> On 2 July 2014 04:07, Ryan Rix <ry at n.rix.si> wrote:
>> >>>>> > matt <matt at nycresistor.com> writes:
>> >>>>> >> I think this boils down to the dichotomy of hackerspace vs
>> >>>>> >> co-working
>> >>>>> >> space.
>> >>>>> >> 
>> >>>>> >> If you build up infrastructure and expect a community to show up in
>> >>>>> >> it, don't be surprised if more than one community shows up, or the
>> >>>>> >> community that shows up is not one you want to be a part of.
>> >>>>> >> 
>> >>>>> >> Noisebridge suffers the tragedy of the commons in a pretty severe
>> >>>>> >> way... having had mole people living in their basement and bi-polar
>> >>>>> >> homeless people show up and and claim they are 'sleep hacking'.
>> >>>>> >> 
>> >>>>> >> That's not what I am talking about. What I am talking about is the
>> >>>>> >> last line in that piece :
>> >>>>> >> 
>> >>>>> >> "A lot of this can be traced to our collective inability to
>> >>>>> >> remember
>> >>>>> >> our core pillars of consensus, excellence, and do-ocracy. There is
>> >>>>> >> no
>> >>>>> >> one person or event that can be blamed. As a community, we failed
>> >>>>> >> to
>> >>>>> >> hold close the values we had. We were hacked by policy hackers."
>> >>>>> >> 
>> >>>>> >> Now I don't know anything about synhak... so I am just going to
>> >>>>> >> speak
>> >>>>> >> to the perspective brought forth by the person who wrote this
>> >>>>> >> piece.
>> >>>>> >> This is a person who enjoyed the community that arrived at synhak
>> >>>>> >> in
>> >>>>> >> the early days. As the space grew and changed and time went on, so
>> >>>>> >> did
>> >>>>> >> the culture and so did the community.
>> >>>>> >> 
>> >>>>> >> I think Torrie is talking specific solutions but not seeing the
>> >>>>> >> forest
>> >>>>> >> through the trees. When torrie talks about common values along side
>> >>>>> >> mission statement, and limiting growth of new membership. What she
>> >>>>> >> is
>> >>>>> >> really talking about is fostering a community rather than
>> >>>>> >> infrastructure. She's focusing more on being with the people she
>> >>>>> >> wants
>> >>>>> >> to be with, than focusing on building a space.
>> >>>>> >> 
>> >>>>> >> And I think that has worked out very well for NYC Resistor. We like
>> >>>>> >> each other. We've liked each other with fairly decent success for
>> >>>>> >> 5-6
>> >>>>> >> years. And while folks have grown apart and there has been some
>> >>>>> >> inevitable culture shift. The community has remained strong.
>> >>>>> >> 
>> >>>>> >> So, the answer is simple. Synhak like noisebridge built a space.
>> >>>>> >> And
>> >>>>> >> communities fought for it, and some took it and some lost it. Much
>> >>>>> >> like noisebridge. NYC Resistor built a community in a coffee
>> >>>>> >> shop...
>> >>>>> >> everything else came later.
>> >>>>> >> 
>> >>>>> >> Advice I give most folks starting a hackerspace, start a community
>> >>>>> >> first. Find the people you want to start the space with. Worry
>> >>>>> >> about
>> >>>>> >> that. because at the end of the day, even if you don't have a
>> >>>>> >> space,
>> >>>>> >> that community is worth way way more.
>> >>>>> > 
>> >>>>> > Well written, Matt.
>> >>>>> > 
>> >>>>> > r
>> >>>>> > _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> > Discuss mailing list
>> >>>>> > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
>> >>>>> > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> >>>>> 
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>>> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
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>> >>>> 
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>>> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> >> 
>> >> <#secure method=pgpmime mode=sign>
>> >> 
>> >> --
>> >> Aurélien DESBRIÈRES
>> >> Run Free - Run GNU.org
>> 
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Aurélien DESBRIÈRES
Run Free - Run GNU.org

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