[hackerspaces] Hackers, feminism, and bullying

Rhys Rhaven rhys at rhavenindustrys.com
Fri Jan 18 09:30:07 CET 2013

I was expecting this kind of reply actually. This:
http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Oppression_Olympics you're just going
the opposite way. "Men aren't oppressed, therefore stfu"

Way to dismiss valid criticism. I will repeat, I want actual balance,
actual equality, and its ineffective to make things heavily skewed to
exclude men as the enemy.

Take Melissa Hall's original thread about Women in makerspaces. She had
3 points:

  * she felt bad about letting people nominate themselves without a fight
  * not having enough women in the space makes her uncomfortable
  * diversity is good

Kay... ..I can't help feelings? I wish I could, but this is the internet
and I'm just some text. :-(

You then get a discussion (always happens) where all the guilty feeling
men chime in about the things they try to do to promote these things.
Some are good, some are good intentioned but offensive (David Powell, so
much whiteknightery bless your heart), and some few will be like
"blind/impartial equality only" where they ignore the existing inertia
against women in hackerspaces that requires an exaggerated response (ex:
50% women speakers at a con when 10% are women members is not a bad
goal). Its a mixed bag.

Next in these kinds of conversations will be the SRS people. SRS is a
beautiful example of 'same shit, different majority.' They have lots of
goals, but in the end their effect is to create a strong us vs them
mentality and erect walls between those who 'get it' and those who
don't, then use a bunch of circular arguments to deflect any criticism.
However it goes and regardless of geek feminism wiki, the biggest victim
is the winner as the conversation peters out into anger and frustration.
Its not healthy. How do you expect cis/male/tech/frat/watever culture to
be inviting when you can't even make your argument for equality inviting?

Kudos to Buddy Smith with 'how NOT to engage in geek romantic relations'

    /Rule #1: When a girl comes through the doors, do NOT try to find
    her on social networking or dating sites!

Put that on a sign, make a joke about it, tell a story, inject a meme of
acceptable geek dating things into your social circle so we can fix
these things. Real strategies/doable things work better than just
sharing circlejerk stories. (and yes, I get why women share such stories
and their value.)

On 01/18/2013 01:56 AM, Al Billings wrote:
> It is always sad to watch a bunch of guys bitch about how oppressed
> they are when women point out why they don't want to put up with crap
> from guys or why their oh so equal hackerspace isn't really inviting
> to people who aren't white, het, and male.
> Way to prove a point, guys.
> Al
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

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