[hackerspaces] Sigh -- I'm not helping with Maker Faires this year.

Far McKon farmckon at gmail.com
Thu Apr 5 03:50:01 CEST 2012

I did an internship at ARFL(Air Force Research Labs) back during
college, and I decided then I would not work for the military, I would
rather not spend my lifetime using my creativity in that way.
Likewise, I don't use Facebook (and probably need to bail on google
mail soon) to avoid doing business with people that behave in a way I
think is immoral.  Technology does not exist in a vacuum, it exists in
the context of culture and morality. Some interesting cases both
recent* and old**  show how weirdly some of these situations play out.

Mitch: I applaud taking a stand for what you believe in. In this case,
I'm still figuring out my own point of view.   I was wondering, beyond
discussion, what effect you think your non-participation may result in
?  Do you have a goal in non-participation, or simply not wanting to
be involved in a DARPA funded operation?

* http://boingboing.net/2012/02/09/u-washingtons-best-of-breed.html
** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Haber

Hack on,
- Far McKon

P.S.   Matt,
<rant>It's pretty clear NASA is causing all of this.  By creating
strife on planet earth, you, and your troll like minions of space, are
trying to drive people to the stars, to awaken whatever old-gods live
on the moon, (Transformers I think?) and take over all of space.   You
figure 'if we fake a moon landing, we can get the funding to get there
eventually' How verrry verry Groupon of your agency to pull such a
stunt.  I hope the 'elder gods' give you the payback you deserve when
you reach ry'leth. Notice how DARPA is just one letter away from
DARMA? Yes Matt, I watch Lost too, and I know about your role in
creating it too...... I know what you are up to. </rant>

On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Matt Joyce <matt at nycresistor.com> wrote:
> Ultimately the discussion hinges on the introduction of a new bias
> into what Make is attempting to do with Maker Faire, and how that
> impacts us as participants in that community.
> Yes Make as an entity has some given pre-existing biases.  They are
> for profit.  They are targetting a demographic.  They want to achieve
> certain goals.  Etc etc.
> But the bias of good vs evil can't be described as some absolute moral
> imperative.  That's dangerous.  Before we pick a name for the bias,
> let's maybe define some criteria.  I think many people are taking
> issue with Mitch's broadish generalization of the entirety of DARPA as
> an entity.
> Certainly that is a concern of mine.  But I feel the concern I have is
> more focused on the bias that we're trying to introduce here.  Is it
> about DARPA?  Is it about the military?  Or is it about opening a
> dialogue on ethics, and consequences in engineering / science / math.
> What is the criteria for this bias?  Is a bias in a public forum a net positive?
> -matt
> On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Matthew Dumas
> <matthew.dumas at ripplecomputing.com> wrote:
>> Maybe it's me, but I don't see very much to discuss. Mitch doesn't want to
>> deal with people that deal with the military, and that's fine. Other people
>> do, and that's also fine.
>> The only problem I see is that people are offended and upset by Make doing
>> what businesses do. Make has never said that they are not out to make money,
>> they are not a non-profit (not that it matters), and they are, in the
>> process of taking money, educating children. If you are really against the
>> education of children because it is sponsored by the government, then you
>> should be against all public schools. Don't hold a double standard, the
>> government is pumping billions into the school system in efforts to churn
>> out the kind of adults they think will be productive, the DARPA funds are
>> just a small part of that.
>> My point is that Make never promised you anything, so don't act like they
>> betrayed you.
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