[hackerspaces] Sigh -- I'm not helping with Maker Faires this year.

[Matt Joyce]

Far,

   It's really just because we're terrified of planet Nemesis
annihilating earth in December.

   =P

-Matt

On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 6:50 PM, Far McKon <farmckon at gmail.com> wrote:
> I did an internship at ARFL(Air Force Research Labs) back during
> college, and I decided then I would not work for the military, I would
> rather not spend my lifetime using my creativity in that way.
> Likewise, I don't use Facebook (and probably need to bail on google
> mail soon) to avoid doing business with people that behave in a way I
> think is immoral.  Technology does not exist in a vacuum, it exists in
> the context of culture and morality. Some interesting cases both
> recent* and old**  show how weirdly some of these situations play out.
>
> Mitch: I applaud taking a stand for what you believe in. In this case,
> I'm still figuring out my own point of view.   I was wondering, beyond
> discussion, what effect you think your non-participation may result in
> ?  Do you have a goal in non-participation, or simply not wanting to
> be involved in a DARPA funded operation?
>
> * http://boingboing.net/2012/02/09/u-washingtons-best-of-breed.html
> ** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Haber
>
> Hack on,
> - Far McKon
>
> P.S.   Matt,
> <rant>It's pretty clear NASA is causing all of this.  By creating
> strife on planet earth, you, and your troll like minions of space, are
> trying to drive people to the stars, to awaken whatever old-gods live
> on the moon, (Transformers I think?) and take over all of space.   You
> figure 'if we fake a moon landing, we can get the funding to get there
> eventually' How verrry verry Groupon of your agency to pull such a
> stunt.  I hope the 'elder gods' give you the payback you deserve when
> you reach ry'leth. Notice how DARPA is just one letter away from
> DARMA? Yes Matt, I watch Lost too, and I know about your role in
> creating it too...... I know what you are up to. </rant>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Matt Joyce <matt at nycresistor.com> wrote:
>> Ultimately the discussion hinges on the introduction of a new bias
>> into what Make is attempting to do with Maker Faire, and how that
>> impacts us as participants in that community.
>>
>> Yes Make as an entity has some given pre-existing biases.  They are
>> for profit.  They are targetting a demographic.  They want to achieve
>> certain goals.  Etc etc.
>>
>> But the bias of good vs evil can't be described as some absolute moral
>> imperative.  That's dangerous.  Before we pick a name for the bias,
>> let's maybe define some criteria.  I think many people are taking
>> issue with Mitch's broadish generalization of the entirety of DARPA as
>> an entity.
>>
>> Certainly that is a concern of mine.  But I feel the concern I have is
>> more focused on the bias that we're trying to introduce here.  Is it
>> about DARPA?  Is it about the military?  Or is it about opening a
>> dialogue on ethics, and consequences in engineering / science / math.
>>
>> What is the criteria for this bias?  Is a bias in a public forum a net positive?
>>
>> -matt
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 5:03 PM, Matthew Dumas
>> <matthew.dumas at ripplecomputing.com> wrote:
>>> Maybe it's me, but I don't see very much to discuss. Mitch doesn't want to
>>> deal with people that deal with the military, and that's fine. Other people
>>> do, and that's also fine.
>>>
>>> The only problem I see is that people are offended and upset by Make doing
>>> what businesses do. Make has never said that they are not out to make money,
>>> they are not a non-profit (not that it matters), and they are, in the
>>> process of taking money, educating children. If you are really against the
>>> education of children because it is sponsored by the government, then you
>>> should be against all public schools. Don't hold a double standard, the
>>> government is pumping billions into the school system in efforts to churn
>>> out the kind of adults they think will be productive, the DARPA funds are
>>> just a small part of that.
>>>
>>> My point is that Make never promised you anything, so don't act like they
>>> betrayed you.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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