[SpaceProgram] Transitioning to Google Groups

Sat Oct 6 09:21:31 CEST 2012

I've been playing with Rizzoma a bit over the past couple of weeks, and so
far the usability is pretty sucky.

I may be mis-remembering, but it seems like a step backward from the G-Wave
client before it was shut down. It's been a while since I played with one
of the Apache Wave sandboxes (e.g. http://waveinabox.net/)  but from memory
they offered a much better user experience than Rizzoma currently offers.

In any case, Rizzoma feels too immature to me at this stage to rely on it
as the backbone for our Space GAMBIT community discussion.

Another consideration, IMO , is that wave-like services offer capabilities
better suited to other tasks/ functions than a traditional group
notification or discussion tool. I think they're great for collaborative
editing (similar to the way Google docs works). Personally, I wouldn't
chose it to replace a classic mail list or a Google/ Yahoo group.

In my view, Google Groups is a reasonable choice for now. Alternatively a
(good) forum tool, or a suitable social-networking/ micro-blogging platform
(G+, identi.ca, app.net [1]) would be other reasonable candidates.

Paul

Paul Szymkowiak

[1] arguably less limitations, ethical issue and better features than
alternatives.

On 6 October 2012 13:44, Alex Cureton-Griffiths <alexcg at gmail.com> wrote:

> I've set up an account for Rizzoma - if anyone wants an invite to play
> with it, let me know. I've only played with it a bit so far and still
> forming an opinion. It's pretty different and has some good functionality,
> but my reservations thus far are:
> * Again, barrier to entry. It took me 3-4 tries to figure out how to put
> text under a topic. This may be a bug or may be me not being smart enough,
> but bit of a showstopper either way.
> * How well established is Rizzoma's parent co? We've had comments that
> Google are slowly deprecating groups and removing features, but if
> Rizzoma's parent were to suddenly go belly up we'd be screwed
> * From what I've seen so far, we'd need to invite the whole group
> (individually) to each topic of discussion. Lot of trouble.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong - I'm still a n00b at this :)
>
> On 6 Oct, 2012, at 9:52 AM, Brent Shambaugh wrote:
>
> > Rizzoma (based on Google Wave)?
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTRj7Aqvcv8
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 8:02 PM, Bryan Bishop <kanzure at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Alex Cureton-Griffiths <
> alexcg at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On the caretaker list we've been kicking around the idea of
> transitioning
> >>> our public list to Google Groups. We'd like to hear some feedback from
> you
> >>> guys before we decide whether to go ahead.
> >>
> >> Lately it seems like Google has been trying to kill their Google
> >> Groups product. I am sure some of you have noticed their new UI and
> >> how they deprecated almost half of the mailing list pages. The URL
> >> structure has changed dramatically; some of the "old" group pages are
> >> still using the previous version, but it looks like new groups are
> >> using the new javascript-heavy version (or however you prefer to name
> >> it).
> >>
> >> Why is this an issue? Well, for one, the javascript-heavy version is
> >> lacking a number of features from the original Google Groups. Pages
> >> like /about and /topics and /thread are completely missing. Although
> >> the RSS urls are still working, the links are gone and not advertised.
> >> Additionally, the "email to subscribe" text seems to be vanished as
> >> well, except in the footers of outgoing email which offers a helpful
> >> unsubscribe address.
> >>
> >> Honestly, I was sort of upset about their new URL structure. It sucks
> >> in comparison to the old links.
> >>
> >> Compare!
> >>
> >> old hotness:
> >> http://groups.google.com/group/diybio/msg/0bdf7ff01c79198a
> >>
> >> new lameness:
> >>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!msg/diybio/_SLixhWFOzM/ihl5HPB_3wsJ
> >>
> >> Compare!
> >>
> >> old hotness:
> >> https://groups.google.com/group/openmanufacturing/about
> >>
> >> new lameness:
> >> https://groups.google.com/group/biohack-nyc/about
> >>
> >> Anyway, it looks like they are planning to deprecate a lot of these
> >> features, and maybe they will even force users off of email in the
> >> future. I certainly don't want to use their shitty forums. :-\
> >>
> >>> WHY TRANSITION?
> >>> * Loads of hackerspaces are already using Google Groups, meaning more
> >>> people know how to use it, thus lower barrier to entry
> >>
> >> Email is even lower barrier to entry.
> >>
> >>> * Much easier to read threads and do searches, so clearer communication
> >>> and less duplication
> >>
> >> My email client makes reading threads a pleasure. I also like
> >> searching mail with notmuch.
> >>
> >>> * We've been hearing comments about how bad Mailman is
> >>
> >> yeah, well, contribute a patch :-)
> >>
> >>> * Less chance of email overload, since Google Groups lets you
> subscribe by
> >>> thread. Less risk of email overload = less annoyance for new users
> >>
> >> I don't think information overload is a real thing. It's just
> >> something that people make up when they hate to configure their email
> >> clients, I think.
> >>
> >>> WHY NOW?
> >>> We're going to put out our press release and start publicizing
> SpaceGAMBIT
> >>> and HSP soon. It'll be easier to transition now, while we're small and
> have
> >>> fewer members, than to try to drag a much larger community onto a new
> >>> platform.
> >>
> >> Do you really want to communicate with people who don't understand
> >> email? Look deep inside your heart before answering :-).
> >>
> >> - Bryan
> >> http://heybryan.org/
> >> 1 512 203 0507
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> SpaceProgram mailing list
> >> SpaceProgram at lists.hackerspaces.org
> >> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram
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> > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram
>
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