[SpaceProgram] DARPA-RA-11-70 100YSS Notification

Tue Jan 3 01:27:29 CET 2012

What exactly is the benefit of having a high altitude launch platform? You
would still need to reach essentially the same escape velocity, but only
have ~half the distance to achieve that velocity. That seems like a worse
trade off (assuming that your perceived benefit is less air resistance)
On Jan 2, 2012 7:19 PM, "Ian Eyberg" <ian at flirtrs.com> wrote:

> Yeh I think we are converging on two points here:
>
> 1) Need something that is easily achievable within a year or two.
>
> 2) Need something that is financially self-sustaining (basically it
> needs to have some form of revenue, not necessarily profit but just
> something that it's not a one shot deal)
>
> There's definitely a lot of crap floating around that could be
> 'recycled' although it seems to me that to make use of it would require
> human intervention of some kind.
>
> maybe w/this new crowdfunding bill it'd be easier to raise initial funds
> for one of the near term goals
>
> if the goal was to have a hackerspace in space it needs stuff like
> electricity, water, air, food, etc. -- these type of things can easily
> be experimented with remotely w/out having to send humans up right away
> thus making their cost extremely cheap
>
> an immediate near term goal might simply be pushing out some large solar
> panels to generate electricty, then maybe pushing out something else,
> etc. until you have a lot of essentials there
>
> I know a lot of ppl on this list are probably familiar with
> http://jpaerospace.com/ but for those who aren't they have plans to do
> high altitude platforms as kind of a half-way point between the ground
> and space -- this would be something that is very easy to do in the
> short term w/enough support and could be a great stepping stone forward
>
> commercially speaking it could definitely generate cash as soon as it
> is up
>
> - Ian
>
> On 15:41 Mon 02 Jan     , Ricky Ng-Adam wrote:
> > Lots of good discussions here! I agree with both Jerry assertion that a
> > permanent space station is better than a lunar base (I never understood
> the
> > fascination with jumping from one gravity well to the other) and Luke
> > assertion that we should shoot for something that's realistic in the
> > short-term.
> >
> > My personal 2 cents (that I've shared this with Alex and is part of the
> > proposal too), is that although we can get a lots of sexy mid-term (space
> > station), long-term (solar system space bases) and very long-term
> > (starship) goals the next step is to thrive to getting a self-sustainable
> > commercial operation in space that can feed other projects.
> >
> > So logically the focus on generating the needed resources (materials,
> food)
> > in space instead of shipping stuff from earth at a prohibitive cost. Ian
> > idea of demo'ing oxygen generation in space is excellent. What I'd add is
> > focusing on getting material. This means space mining or more
> realistically
> > in the short-term space recycling, so we can build things in space.
> >
> > An ambitious but achievable goal could be to collect one chunk of space
> > garbage and turn it into a usable pieces of parts for building. Space
> > recycling seems like a sexy enough goal to me and it folds nicely into
> the
> > trendy "green" movement.
> >
> > We can also copy off DARPA's Phoenix project (
> > http://www.darpa.mil/Our_Work/TTO/Programs/Phoenix.aspx) and make it our
> > own...
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 2:13 PM, Jerry Isdale <jerry at mauimakers.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > A lunar lander/colony may not be the best goal.  I forgot the source
> but I
> > > recall arguments that a permanent space station is a better first step.
> > >  Something more than the current station that doesnt need constant
> altitude
> > > boosts (L point located?)
> > >
> > > Getting there and back avoids the gravity well on the other end - you
> only
> > > have to worry about earth's well and re-entry.
> > >
> > > And a station has lots of the same issues to solve as a ground
> habitat...
> > > with lack of gravity to make things more complicated.
> > >
> > > Jerry Isdale
> > > http://MauiMakers.com
> > > http://www.mauimakers.com/blog/thursday-public-meeting/
> > >
> > > On Jan 1, 2012, at 6:00 PM, Luke Weston wrote:
> > >
> > > >> 2. Mini greenhouse on moon within 2 years - I think we could make
> this
> > > a subgoal/milestone of say 'lunar colony in 20 years' which to me is a
> sexy
> > > goal.
> > > >
> > > > But what's the point of having a "sexy goal" if it's not realistic?
> > > > Marketing or "selling" something to the public (or governments, or
> the
> > > > media, or potential benefactors) if you don't have good confidence
> > > > that you can actually deliver it as promised on the timescale
> promised
> > > > really isn't a very good way to go.
> > > >
> > > > Better to have goals that are challenging, optimistic, exciting, but
> > > > still actually within the realm of what you can actually practically
> > > > build, on schedule. You've got to crawl before you can walk.
> > > >
> > > > It's worth noting that the only man-rated operational spacecraft
> > > > systems in the world at present are the Soyuz and the Long March 2F
> > > > (and arguably SpaceShipOne, for very brief suborbital ballistic hops
> > > > just barely above the Kármán line).
> > > >
> > > > The only private non-government manned spacecraft capability that has
> > > > ever been demonstrated is a couple of brief suborbital ballistic
> hops,
> > > > just barely above the Kármán line, with SpaceShipOne, and no private
> > > > corporation or NGO has ever demonstrated manned spacecraft launch
> > > > capability to Earth orbit.
> > > >
> > > > Small moves, Ellie.
> > > >
> > > > Let's suppose you want a manned lunar colony. What milestones would
> > > > you have to hit?
> > > >
> > > > Let's consider some plausible milestones:
> > > >
> > > > a) Highly reliable unmanned suborbital ballistic rocket launch
> vehicle
> > > > capability designed and built and tested extensively and proven
> > > >
> > > > b) Highly reliable unmanned launch vehicle capability to Earth orbit
> > > > designed and built and tested extensively and proven.
> > > >
> > > > (Or, you can buy commercial "off the shelf" access to satellite
> launch
> > > > vehicles that do (b) and skip (a)).
> > > >
> > > > c) Life support and crew support technology designed and built and
> > > > tested, spacecraft man-rated and certified for manned brief
> suborbital
> > > > ballistic spaceflight. (eg. SpaceShipOne)
> > > >
> > > > d) As per (c) but extending that to Earth orbit insertion.
> > > >
> > > > e) Trans-lunar injection and lunar orbit rendezvous, guidance and
> > > docking.
> > > >
> > > > f) Lunar landing
> > > >
> > > > g) Sustainable life support, energy, safety and habitability for a
> lunar
> > > colony.
> > > >
> > > > h) Transport of a large enough mass of materials and equipment and
> > > > components to the moon to actually build a lunar colony.
> > > >
> > > > It's more plausible to work primarily on (a)-(c), or technologies or
> > > > components of relevance to those milestones, or the other ones,
> > > > perhaps in parallel, patiently, over time, before the whole thing
> very
> > > > slowly starts to become viable.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > >  Luke
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > SpaceProgram mailing list
> > > > SpaceProgram at lists.hackerspaces.org
> > > > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > SpaceProgram mailing list
> > > SpaceProgram at lists.hackerspaces.org
> > > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > 伍思力 | Ricky Ng-Adam | http://xinchejian.com | (+86) 186-2126-2521
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > SpaceProgram mailing list
> > SpaceProgram at lists.hackerspaces.org
> > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram
>
>
> --
> web: https://flirtrs.com
> email: ian at flirtrs.com
> phone: 573.219.0658
> skype: ian.eyberg
> _______________________________________________
> SpaceProgram mailing list
> SpaceProgram at lists.hackerspaces.org
> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/spaceprogram
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.hackerspaces.org/pipermail/spaceprogram/attachments/20120102/ad7402e0/attachment-0001.html>