[foodhackingbase] (no subject)

Tue Nov 12 01:06:56 CET 2013

Great, I'm copying my friend Jennifer who I mentioned to you from the Farm
to Fermentation festival. I also copied your foodhackingbase list.

I think that the forum I setup at design.aeonfarm.com can certainly
facilitate dynamic discussions about all types of fermentations.

I think that deep down this is a passion that we all share.

And to answer the question about the web based system, yes I feel this is
what I'm most suited to lead and develop over time, and I do see it as a
long term vision.

I've spoken with Jennifer about this, and I would love to see "fermentation
centers" start popping up around the world that are providing a variety of
healthy functions. I can see an elegant open source system empowering
people to do this.

-Greg

On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 3:26 PM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>wrote:

> Hi Greg,
> Thanks for the reply, answers in the text!
>
> This all sounds fantastic, thanks for your time in thinking through this.
>
> >>> it was a pleasure, answering in this way makes me thing and realize
> many things by myself
>
> I believe I can keep the forum running from here forth. The question is
> whether it will be a forum for the community, or more of a blog for what
> I'm doing here in California.
>
> >>> Great! For the second, future will show I would say. I think that I
> can get there few more people so we can work on the incubator/ark reactor
> there, it is handy for these activities for sure. My hope is that in the
> future we can run this as part of the food hacking base community. I think
> I have mentioned it but I would like to have something like the
> Wildfermentation forum here, especially check the sections Resources and
> mos of all the
>
> http://www.wildfermentation.com/  Wild fermentation
>
> http://www.wildfermentation.com/forum/   Fermentation Support Forum
>
> It seems to me by look that it is really close to what you have come up.
>
> My goal is to create a web based system that can empower people to create
> their own physical manifestation, so to be as open as possible about the
> fabrication in the forum would be great.
>
> >>> My question would be, is development of such a web based system what
> you can do best and what you are mostly interested in? Aren't there a
> decent alternatives already? This sounds to me as a huge full time long
> term project, what do you think? For me if it works in a way that others
> can help to manage it without learning huge amounts of nasty code and it is
> stable enough in a way that if it goes down you can upload it again without
> loosing too much data, than it would be nice to use it and test it in that
> way. You are now running that at your place so lets use it and see how it
> goes.
>
> Regarding your questions with Arduino, it seems that is what you are most
> comfortable with. I am more focused on web based monitoring and control
> technology, so I need a board that is running Linux. Like I've mentioned
> the new Arduino Yun is capable, but Rapsberry Pi and Beaglebone are better.
> Your price point per unit will be difficult to hit without buying supplies
> in large quantity.
>
> >>> This is a first step. The Raspberry Pi or something like that is on
> the list later on, even with my limited knowledge that is quite pretty
> clear to me. Honestly I think that both lines should and will be developed.
> The low low cost for example used in developing countries (I'm after these
> things a lot). I'm now wondering about the unit cost, $50 should be max for
> now. Well any recommendations are welcomed, I'll wait also for Arnd to
> comment. My priority at the moment to have it ready on time and make sure
> that the things fits together and we are not left with Arduino prototyping
> shields not fitting the board etc. By the way what program do you use for
> drawing schematics?
>
> >>> Well today my girlfriend is coming back so I've to return to a "real
> life", therefore my online activity will be a bit decreased but I'll be
> still working hard.
>
> >>> I'm looking forward to talk to you soon,
>
> >>> Sincerely,
>
> >>> FAA
>
> PS Just to mention email like this is for example exactly what should be
> posted to the food hacking base discuss. Most of the time people would not
> get involved but sometimes you get a nice surprise.
>
>
> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>
>
> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>
>
> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>
>
> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
>
>
>   On Tuesday, November 12, 2013 4:15 AM, Greg Mueller <gmon01 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>  This all sounds fantastic, thanks for your time in thinking through
> this.
>
> I believe I can keep the forum running from here forth. The question is
> whether it will be a forum for the community, or more of a blog for what
> I'm doing here in California.
>
> My goal is to create a web based system that can empower people to create
> their own physical manifestation, so to be as open as possible about the
> fabrication in the forum would be great.
>
> Regarding your questions with Arduino, it seems that is what you are most
> comfortable with. I am more focused on web based monitoring and control
> technology, so I need a board that is running Linux. Like I've mentioned
> the new Arduino Yun is capable, but Rapsberry Pi and Beaglebone are better.
> Your price point per unit will be difficult to hit without buying supplies
> in large quantity.
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 1:40 AM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
> I just posted to the forum but I can not upload pictures at the moment
> (new user) so that will have to wait a bit.
>
> Now concerning what we could do together. First of all I think it is
> important to keep an eye on our activities which are keeping us alive so we
> do not get too enthusiastic and do not cut the branch under us, I'm
> sometimes an expert on this if I get really deep in something.
>
> So now what I would like to know if you could do or what I can imagine you
> could do which me/others could contribute to and profit: you know polite
> suggestions, checking etc.
>
> - I think that it would be really good to keep in touch concerning
> progress on your project at aeonfarm. That would be a base I would say.
> From my point of view I would take it as a your group effort which I would
> like to present (if you like) as an associated effort with the Food Hacking
> Base (fhb) project. This would translate into mentioning on our list from
> time to time what you are up to (preferably you will mention that :-)), the
> same applies to Twitter, Facebook etc. we can promote it further - that
> would get attention both to you and us. So I think that would be the start,
> concerning the "associated" word well it is taking shape now so if you are
> interested I would like you to sign for the food hacking base discuss and
> talk about that there and make it clearer in other words shaping it
> together.
>
> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/foodhackingbase
>
> - if you can keep up the http://design.aeonfarm.com/ I would like to know
> what is it running on, how hard it is to keep running smoothly, what are
> the future prospects behind the software etc. All these would be lovely to
> present on the discuss, because there are people who do understand these
> things quite well, I'm not really one of them. I would like to know if you
> think this has a future and it is feasible to use for group as ours. My
> hope is that using it first as the "aeonfarm forum we could test it and if
> the things go fine we could use something like that for food hacking base
> (fhb) too. Concerning the webmastering and things like that, I'm generally
> trying to keep away from that because I do not understand that very well
> (media wiki is kind of OK with me) and I do not have time - too busy with
> events or being on the road out of the grid and keeping the things running.
> In general I hope that in the future the fhb is going to rent/own some well
> connected fast server and we can do whatever we want there. I would
> definitely recommend several people having full admin access. How do you
> feel about this one?
>
> - ark reactor/experimental incubator project. I would like to prepare
> 5-10x control units with sensors and all parts necessary to start to play
> with them and test them before the 30c3 in Hamburg comes this December. I
> would like you with the others  to help out to think what would be the best
> way to do it, what parts yes and what parts no. I think $50 should be max
> investment per unit, $30-40 would be better. Access to the Internet is not
> priority in this case, so the Arduino is likely to be the best choice to
> start with, what do you think? I will work on it later on and post you on
> the development but I would like to know your opinion in general, this is
> not my field. Especially I'm not sure about the "just Atmega chip" option
> and breadboard or whole Arduino board and breadboard too (second is more
> expensive but sounds to be safer way to go). What do you think?
>
> Now what the food hacking base and me can do to contribute to your
> activities:
>
> - we can to at least a degree promote your activities especially the ones
> connected to the bio-fermentors etc. you know what I'm mean. That will give
> you extra attention which helps in general - I do not say it is anything
> major but well we had an article at Make magazine about our activities few
> months ago etc.
>
> - when we run a crowdsourcing campaign which we sooner or later will
> again, we can coordinate with you so some of the project is included and
> split the resources/funds from the campaign to support given project. This
> is a way which I want to promote and partly from this reason I'm promoting
> the Dancing Drops group which we run here in Jeju as associated group to
> fhb. Now simple said fhb group doesn't have some amazing huge funders but
> if you put out a campaign once in few/several months and you really work
> hard and well on it, I say over $1000 raised one can relay, I think more
> than that to be honest but lets keep safe. It is not too much for example
> but it can pay for the parts which helps.
>
> - base for events - if you decide to go for some big hacker event where we
> are than you have a really good platform to do what you want there, both
> equipment, funds and publicity wise. That one is for sure. I was hoping to
> make it for USA events in 2014 but I think it will have to wait, so now it
> is 30c3 and definitely 31c3 next year.
>
> Anyway this is a bit longer email which summarize it a bit. Please sign
> for your discuss if you can, continue with your projects at aeon farm, lets
> promote them, keep the forum up if you can lets help to make it more stable
> by using it and at the moment sensitive - advice please on the experimental
> incubator parts needed to put together 5-10x prototypes, based on Arduino,
> budget below $50 or $30-40 per unit. We can help your promote your
> activities, when crowdsourcing campaign is on, we can include your project
> and split the funds and give a base at hacker events where we are if you
> decide to come.
>
> Well that would be for not it, it was a long day and I still have drinks
> to harvest :-)
>
> Have a good time and I'll be looking forward to talk to you soon!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> FAA
>
> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>
>
> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>
>
> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>
>
> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
>
>
>   On Monday, November 11, 2013 2:31 PM, Greg Mueller <gmon01 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>  Looks great. What do you mean use the explanatory text? Something I said?
>
> I saw your Dancing Drops page on Facebook, love all the fermentations
> you've done.
>
> You would real like my friend Jennifer who runs the Farm to Fermentation
> festival in Sonoma every year. She's amazing. I did a presentation there
> back in August on fermentation and technology. www.farmtofermentation.com/
>
> Here was the lineup for the day:
> http://www.farmtofermentation.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/schedule8.10.jpg
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 8:15 PM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> so just a short one after few hours of work :-) I will use the explanatory
> text as I did on Facebook, hoping it is OK with you. I would like to make
> the 3D model within next day or two and hopefully schematics of the
> electric circuit, I wonder if you could check the "final version" of it,
> I'm not very experienced in it. What would you recommend as a open source
> program to use? I've found for example this info
>
>
> http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/open-sourced/4406400/Open-source-electrical-engineering-design-tools
>
> and I remember mic from c-base uses free version of Eagle
>
> Sincerely,
>
> FAA
>
> This is I would say first draft of the post about the build up of a simple
> light bulb based dryer which I did
>
>
> http://experimentalincubator.wordpress.com/2013/11/11/diy-dryer-prototype-build-up/
>
> I plan to add more things and make it clearer but I hope tot get some feed
> back on this from you. I hope to help to build improved versions up in the
> future, especially on our upcoming tour around Europe which we plan for
> January and February of next year after 30c3.
>
> Enjoy and I hope to hear back from you.
>
>
> FAA
>
>
> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>
>
> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>
>
> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>
>
> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
>
>
>   On Monday, November 11, 2013 10:14 AM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <
> algoldor at yahoo.com> wrote:
>   Do not worry take your time. Well now I think it may be a good time to
> sit a bit and upload some pictures to the forum and info :-)
>
> With me it is simple, if I'm supposed to work well for longer term I have
> to do it as a community based endeavor. So what we are now talking about
> and the way how I'm promoting things are well suited to me.
>
> I will get back to you during today, homework first!
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>
>
> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>
>
> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>
>
> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
>
>
>   On Monday, November 11, 2013 4:53 AM, Greg Mueller <gmon01 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>  Sounds fantastic, how do you think we can bring things together?
>
> I would be glad to be a "webmaster" of sorts for forum and web based
> control system software for the devices that we are working on.
>
> Thank you for including me into the 'hackerspace' community. I haven't
> responded quite yet to introduce myself.
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 10, 2013 at 5:15 AM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
> well tomorrow is my last "whole working day" meaning I've time for
> whatever I like, after that my darling is coming back and well back to
> field work I guess. I'll take care about the pictures and descriptions of
> the dryer which I did for the forum and many thanks for uploading the
> previous discussion back!
>
> I hope to get the list of parts necessary to be able to work on the first
> prototypes within next week or 10 days so I can order them.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>
>
> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>
>
> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>
>
> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
>
>
>   On Saturday, November 9, 2013 4:29 PM, Greg Mueller <gmon01 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>  Sounds really cool! I've always wanted to do that, but haven't a good
> enough guide. Of course, feel free to post a new topic on the forum about
> it or fermented beverages in general.
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 11:06 PM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> Many thanks!
>
> I've just finished some probiotic soda experiments - trying few small test
> batches (2 l) with variety of ingredients, adding it just day or two before
> bottling (after 3-5 days of fermentation), based on kefir culture (whey). I
> did peels of sweet potato, "flesh" of sweet potato, tangerine and herbs
> (not sure if it is rosemary and lavander exactly will know soon).
>
> Tomorrow I will just post a blog about fhb project at OHM 2013 - build up
> of a hexayurt based cold room and we will see after wards.
>
> Once more thanks,
>
> Talk to you soon,
>
>
> FAA
>
> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>
>
> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>
>
> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>
>
> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
>
>
>   On Saturday, November 9, 2013 3:23 PM, Greg Mueller <gmon01 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>  Yes, I can put our conversation back up the way it was. I signed up for
> you, and I'll put it back up. Just ignore the confirmation email you got, I
> already confirmed you.
>
> Login: algoldor at yahoo.com
> pw: incubator (you can change this)
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 8, 2013 at 8:49 PM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
> Thanks for the reply and putting to forum up again, excellent!
>
> Shall I try to copy our previous conversations there? If I do I'm afraid
> it would be just a monologue and I do not have he pictures which you shared
> there. I know it would take a bit of extra time but it may be handy :-)
>
> I will check on the info which you send in this email in a bit, I've to do
> several experiments today, one of them is starting batch of kombucha
> producing a cellulose layer which I want to dry later on and make to Food
> Hacking Base batches with some laser engraving I hope. Also I'm thinking
> now about build up of an incubator box, I would like to have around
> 60x60x60 cm cubic space inside, doors which open and arduino operated
> temperature probe and heating element (for now just heating). I'm not sure
> what to use as a heat source, I would like to have a nice even distribution
> of heat inside, wondering if some "light bulbs" producing heat, fans
> transferring it to the incubator chamber would work. It was quite fine
> scenario with peltiers before. The incubator dimensions would be more or
> less like this one, but the box will be much more simple
>
> http://experimentalincubator.wordpress.com/
>
> By they way the dryer works quite fine, I will try to upload pictures
> today. I have loaded kombucha SCOBY of 286 g in and within 24 hours it
> dried to 145 g, not bad I think.
>
> Anyway I will go on with the experiments, log into the forum and post some
> pictures, hopefully later on  today. Do you have some budget for your
> experiments? It is my aim to get resources for this type of stuff in next
> few months through crowd sourcing campaigns - I'm confident that if they
> are well prepared it will work.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> FAA
>
>
> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>
>
> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>
>
> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>
>
> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
>
>
>   On Saturday, November 9, 2013 1:00 PM, Greg Mueller <gmon01 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>  I started with Arduino, and it was a fine solution for pulling sensor
> data, but when I wanted to implement real controls and logic, I realized I
> needed a dedicated linux board. I've been working with Raspberry Pi, but
> I'm going to get a BeagleBone and test with that, as I think it may be
> better suited than a Raspberry Pi. They aren't that much more expensive
> than an Arduino and have much more capability. The new Arduino Yun has a
> distro of Linux, but it is limited and is a much more expensive board.
>
> I like the unit that you describe - measures temperature and humidity and
> can turn on/off a heating and cooling device, while being connected to the
> internet. I currently have 1 temperature sensor running right now. Attached
> is the graph readout over the past week. The sensor is in a shipping
> container. I'm going to add a few more temperature sensors (1 for outside
> the container, and one for the liquid vessel) along with 2 humidity sensors
> (inside and out).
>
> I put a new a forum up at design.aeonfarm.com - the idea there obviously
> says "farm" instead of "reactor".
>
> I'm not sure what that means, I am working on a farm so it seems more
> fitting.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 7:00 PM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> Thanks for the reply. I liked the style of the one which was up, so if you
> can make something like that happen again and secure that even if it is
> down from time to time the data (with pictures etc.) will stay there, I
> would like to contribute. How is your hosting/server, no issues there?
>
> I plan to start a crowd sourcing campaign for fhb soon, experimental
> incubator or however it should be called will be part of that. My friend
> Arnd got back to me, pointing out that the Arduino based prototypes would
> have decent advantage of being really cheap, and easy to work with if
> shields are used properly. I like the raspberry PI (as he does) but wonder
> if that could be step number two lets say, what do you think? We plan with
> my girlfriend a food hacking tour around Europe and building up incubators
> and getting people involved in where we go is important part of that. My
> hope is to put with someone like you :-) decent design for a simple circuit
> board (which I would print later on at c-base or other places) for a
> control element for incubator which would measure temperature (and
> hopefully humidity), switch on and off heating/cooling element (most likely
> peltier devices - at least for cooling), would be accessible from Internet
> (hopefully) and display the data on a display, plus can be set up by
> buttons, if there would be extra ports which could be used for additional
> probes that would be very nice.
>
> This is what mic one for me at c-base in Berlin last year
>
>
> https://foodhackingbase.org/wiki/File:Experimental_incubator_c_base_test_800_2012.jpg
>
> https://github.com/Miceuz/incubator
>
> I would like to know your opinion on this and if you would like to be
> involved - the architecture at least for now seems bit different than what
> you are up to. If done well it can get people involved in the subject and
> get some resources for I would say pre-prototyping faze, which could last
> for half year or so. After that bigger crowd sourcing campaign can be done
> with an aim to develop a real product within a year or so.
>
> So any forum which you put on great, please try to keep link to it
> constant for as long as possible and more stable th platform is better but
> that is not priority, please comment on the Arduino based circuit board
> printed idea which I've mentioned.
>
> Will be in touch shortly,
>
>  Sincerely,
>
> PS As I have mentioned we have got here in Korea around $20 000 grant to
> build up an fermentation station and cafe - mostly equipment dedicated.
> Part of it is electronic lab, I've added you under share option so you can
> have a look/edit on the Google document (if editing please rather add below
> so I do not get lost :-)). Part of this budget are electronic components
> for experimental incubator
>
>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AoI1FSp-qkEWdERyYzQ1UzZ1UXBMenJxVl9Ta0NYU3c&usp=sharing
>
> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>
>
> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>
>
> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>
>
> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
>
>
>   On Friday, November 8, 2013 11:16 AM, Greg Mueller <gmon01 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>  Thanks for your thoughts. I know we barely know each other but we care
> about such similar things, it's a joy to connect with you.
>
> I pulled the database file out of the older version of that software...
> here is our conversation in text.
>
> I'm going to have to start a fresh forum now, maybe this one can have a
> broader feel to it, than just a reactor
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:40 PM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
> understood. Pity it went down just now, I have posted to two main lists
> with link to it in case of one :-)
>
> The reactor in the "ark reactor" will earn some negative connotations, I'm
> quite sure about that. Aeon farm sounds softer but the "farm" will sound to
> hackers bit suspicious :-) Maybe ark farm? :-))) Not sure this is your
> decision to take I think. I'll go through the info which you send me few
> days ago today, now back to the post about cold room build up at OHM 2013.
>
> Talk to you soon,
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>
>
> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>
>
> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>
>
> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
>
>
>   On Friday, November 8, 2013 9:33 AM, Greg Mueller <gmon01 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>   Also, I put this together summer of 2012, I thought you may like it
> based on the recent correspondence I read about about artists and
> eco-villages. I am a HUGE fan of that :)
>
> http://grapethinking.com/aeon/fermentation/learn.html
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:25 PM, Greg Mueller <gmon01 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Frantisek,
>
> I was trying to update the forum software last night and everything
> crashed. I've been working today to get it up and running. It has been
> difficult. I am using open source software that still has some bugs.
> however, the interface and functionality is so much better than
> wordpress/tumblr/wikis etc.
>
> I forwarded the URL to another site I've been hacking together, Aeon Farm.
> Right now it is just a login system built with Node.js.
>
> What name do you like more? Aeon Farm or Ark Reactor?
>
> I've had Aeon Farm for some time. A friend did that nice logo.
> Maybe "farm" has a better meaning than "reactor"?
>
> I'm working to get the forum back up and running.
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 4:16 PM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <algoldor at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
> I have copied and mentioned you on few mailing lists (hacker related), are
> you OK with that? I hope so if not please let me know!
>
> By the way I'm trying to get to the posts about the ark reactor/incubator
> but this page instead is popping out
>
> http://aeonfarm.com/
>
> my log in doesn't work there, do you know what is going on?
>
> Talk to you more today,
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck
>
>
> biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker
>
>
> http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org
>
>
> "There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi
>
>
>
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