[Finance] Finance Digest, Vol 5, Issue 4

Braintank thebraintank at gmail.com
Thu Oct 28 13:23:03 CEST 2010 

Since when does a good company not focus on it's employees? Ever heard of Zappos?
The "member funded" model is great for hobbyists but what if you are just a bit more passionate about what you do? How do you take that next step to legitimate profession? How do you afford the really expensive tools when you are still all working from member dues and maybe a lucky donation or two(especially hard when starting up)?

Sometimes research can only go so far on a shoestring. (yes you could probably build everything you need from scratch but think about how long it would take for some things. I don't see anyone going around with piles of silicon and copper to make computers from scratch. Why? Because it's not cost effective. We buy them instead.)

-Dave

www.TheBrainTank.net

401-267-TANK (8265)

On Oct 28, 2010, at 12:27 AM, Jerél Jerél <0.jerel.0 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hacker Space is an organization - Hacker Space is about the members,
> the people, the community, the group.
> If you lose sight of that then you miss the whole concept.
> 
> Hacker Space is not a business. It is not about the location, the
> equipment the toys.
> 
> Its heart - its core is people.
> 
> The more you make it about balance sheets, the more you lose focus of people.
> The more you lose focus of people, the more your balance sheet will be
> in the red.
> --conversely--
> The more you make it about the people, the projects, the group effort,
> the community - the more it will thrive.
> 
> It sounds to me like you are going for more a gym/fitness center
> business model.
> 
> Grant, i do not know you, nor am i attacking your idea.
> 
> however, in my opinion you are selling yourself short.
> - if you go into this with a retail mentality you will be missing 98%
> of what Hacker Space is all about.
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 1:27 PM,
> <finance-request at lists.hackerspaces.org> wrote:
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>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>   1. Re: Startup Costs (Grant Henninger)
>>   2. Re: Startup Costs (Grant Henninger)
>>   3. Re: Startup Costs (Christopher J. Pilkington)
>>   4. Re: Startup Costs (Jeff Cotten)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 09:23:45 -0700
>> From: Grant Henninger <grant.henninger at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Finance] Startup Costs
>> To: Brain Tank <thebraintank at gmail.com>
>> Cc: finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
>> Message-ID:
>>        <AANLkTimrnbqX-q4=cdEiauZeh2CZ2B8sr6m7YmqUn632 at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> 
>> All,
>> 
>> Thank you for your helpful comments.  We're looking at a slightly different
>> model than most hackerspaces.  We want to run more like a for-profit service
>> company than a co-op.  One of the reasons we want to buy a lot of the
>> equipment up front is so we have a full set of services we can offer and
>> keep early adopters coming back.  However, I think you all have a good point
>> about ways to cut down on the costs.  There is probably quite a bit I can
>> cut out that isn't really needed.  I'll sharpen my pencil and see what I can
>> cut.
>> 
>> -Grant Henninger
>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:34 AM, Brain Tank <thebraintank at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Grant,
>>> 
>>> Where are you starting your Hackerspace?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Dave
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Dan Hess <dan9186 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> We've yet to move into a location as we're shopping around, currently
>>>> we're planning roughly $1500 for first/last months rent, $1500 for rainy day
>>>> funds to smooth out the times where there may be excess vs not enough
>>>> members, and probably not even $1000 in furniture and other move in costs.
>>>> 
>>>> I think that you'll find that anything you think you just really need,
>>>> your group will find a rather creative way to obtain it while keeping the
>>>> costs down.  Necessity is the mother of invention.  We want pretty much all
>>>> of those same things you've listed, but are certain to be obtained over time
>>>> and after we've moved in.  There's plenty of hacking/making that can go on
>>>> in a shop that doesn't have an excess of tools and I would personally think
>>>> you wouldn't want to stave all of the growth of the group that comes with
>>>> having a space for lack of some equipment.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Daniel
>>>> http://www.midsouthmakers.org
>>>> 
>>>> - Copying one is plagiarism, copying many is research.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:16 AM, Leigh Honeywell <leigh at hypatia.ca>wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 10-10-25 03:05 PM, Grant Henninger wrote:
>>>>>> A few friends and I are looking at starting up our own hackerspace.
>>>>>>  We've tried to think through what we'll need to buy in order to get
>>>>> our
>>>>>> place up and running, but I'm sure we're leaving things out.  For those
>>>>>> of you who have been through this process before, what were your
>>>>> startup
>>>>>> costs?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Our costs were just under $3000 for first/last months' rent, plus about
>>>>> $1000 on furniture at Ikea.  You can probably save on the latter by
>>>>> spending some quality time with Craigslist, but at the time we just
>>>>> really wanted to get some desks and shelving and be done with it :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Leigh
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Finance mailing list
>>>>> Finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
>>>>> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/finance
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Finance mailing list
>>>> Finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
>>>> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/finance
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Finance mailing list
>>> Finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
>>> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/finance
>>> 
>>> 
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>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 09:24:24 -0700
>> From: Grant Henninger <grant.henninger at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Finance] Startup Costs
>> To: Brain Tank <thebraintank at gmail.com>
>> Cc: finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
>> Message-ID:
>>        <AANLkTikDyQOsCDkPWA3mOPG2Pk96Oc-KW7BLzj3eRYq8 at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> 
>> Dave,
>> 
>> We're looking in Anaheim, CA.  (Let me know if you're local and want a bit
>> more detail than that.)
>> 
>> -Grant
>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:34 AM, Brain Tank <thebraintank at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Grant,
>>> 
>>> Where are you starting your Hackerspace?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Dave
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Dan Hess <dan9186 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> We've yet to move into a location as we're shopping around, currently
>>>> we're planning roughly $1500 for first/last months rent, $1500 for rainy day
>>>> funds to smooth out the times where there may be excess vs not enough
>>>> members, and probably not even $1000 in furniture and other move in costs.
>>>> 
>>>> I think that you'll find that anything you think you just really need,
>>>> your group will find a rather creative way to obtain it while keeping the
>>>> costs down.  Necessity is the mother of invention.  We want pretty much all
>>>> of those same things you've listed, but are certain to be obtained over time
>>>> and after we've moved in.  There's plenty of hacking/making that can go on
>>>> in a shop that doesn't have an excess of tools and I would personally think
>>>> you wouldn't want to stave all of the growth of the group that comes with
>>>> having a space for lack of some equipment.
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Daniel
>>>> http://www.midsouthmakers.org
>>>> 
>>>> - Copying one is plagiarism, copying many is research.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:16 AM, Leigh Honeywell <leigh at hypatia.ca>wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> On 10-10-25 03:05 PM, Grant Henninger wrote:
>>>>>> A few friends and I are looking at starting up our own hackerspace.
>>>>>>  We've tried to think through what we'll need to buy in order to get
>>>>> our
>>>>>> place up and running, but I'm sure we're leaving things out.  For those
>>>>>> of you who have been through this process before, what were your
>>>>> startup
>>>>>> costs?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Our costs were just under $3000 for first/last months' rent, plus about
>>>>> $1000 on furniture at Ikea.  You can probably save on the latter by
>>>>> spending some quality time with Craigslist, but at the time we just
>>>>> really wanted to get some desks and shelving and be done with it :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Leigh
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Finance mailing list
>>>>> Finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
>>>>> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/finance
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Finance mailing list
>>>> Finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
>>>> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/finance
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Finance mailing list
>>> Finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
>>> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/finance
>>> 
>>> 
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>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 14:30:45 -0400
>> From: "Christopher J. Pilkington" <cjp at 0x1.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Finance] Startup Costs
>> To: Grant Henninger <grant.henninger at gmail.com>
>> Cc: finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
>> Message-ID: <20101027183045.GF11190 at 0x1.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 09:23:45AM -0700, Grant Henninger wrote:
>>> model than most hackerspaces.  We want to run more like a for-profit service
>>> company than a co-op.  One of the reasons we want to buy a lot of the equipment
>>> up front is so we have a full set of services we can offer and keep early
>>> adopters coming back.  However, I think you all have a good point about ways to
>> 
>> So you are adopting something like the TechShop model.
>> 
>> This model is not a hackerspace at all IMHO, so I think you
>> should probably seek other input regarding start up costs.
>> 
>> For example, if I were looking to join a TechShop-type
>> establishment, I would expect and demand access to a full
>> compliment of professional-grade tools, as you listed.
>> (Although, I think you mentioned MakerBot, I'm not sure that's
>> appropriate for a for-profit workshop, but it might be ok to
>> start with.)
>> 
>> For a collaborative, donation and membership supported
>> hackerspace, I'm willing to put in the elbow grease, extra money
>> here and there to fix things and acquire new tools. I wouldn't
>> be willing to do the same in a for-profit space (unless perhaps
>> I was a shareholder.)
>> 
>> We are starting our non-profit membership supported space on a
>> shoestring. All the tools that we will have day one will be
>> member owned and on loan to the space, until we start saving up
>> some money.
>> 
>> -cjp
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 14:25:25 -0500
>> From: Jeff Cotten <omegix at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Finance] Startup Costs
>> To: "Christopher J. Pilkington" <cjp at 0x1.net>
>> Cc: finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
>> Message-ID:
>>        <AANLkTi=MN1w=pu6fvrhzUkW+r_q4Qmare_Yd4LKC1d2E at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> 
>> I've never used this site, but I thought it would be a good tool for someone
>> wanting to start a for-profit techshop type space.
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.kickstarter.com/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 1:30 PM, Christopher J. Pilkington <cjp at 0x1.net>wrote:
>> 
>>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 09:23:45AM -0700, Grant Henninger wrote:
>>>> model than most hackerspaces.  We want to run more like a for-profit
>>> service
>>>> company than a co-op.  One of the reasons we want to buy a lot of the
>>> equipment
>>>> up front is so we have a full set of services we can offer and keep early
>>>> adopters coming back.  However, I think you all have a good point about
>>> ways to
>>> 
>>> So you are adopting something like the TechShop model.
>>> 
>>> This model is not a hackerspace at all IMHO, so I think you
>>> should probably seek other input regarding start up costs.
>>> 
>>> For example, if I were looking to join a TechShop-type
>>> establishment, I would expect and demand access to a full
>>> compliment of professional-grade tools, as you listed.
>>> (Although, I think you mentioned MakerBot, I'm not sure that's
>>> appropriate for a for-profit workshop, but it might be ok to
>>> start with.)
>>> 
>>> For a collaborative, donation and membership supported
>>> hackerspace, I'm willing to put in the elbow grease, extra money
>>> here and there to fix things and acquire new tools. I wouldn't
>>> be willing to do the same in a for-profit space (unless perhaps
>>> I was a shareholder.)
>>> 
>>> We are starting our non-profit membership supported space on a
>>> shoestring. All the tools that we will have day one will be
>>> member owned and on loan to the space, until we start saving up
>>> some money.
>>> 
>>> -cjp
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Finance mailing list
>>> Finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
>>> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/finance
>>> 
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>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Finance mailing list
>> Finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
>> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/finance
>> 
>> 
>> End of Finance Digest, Vol 5, Issue 4
>> *************************************
>> 
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