[hackerspaces] Fwd: Re: HOPE 2020 is live, and free for the next 9 days!

ijon at c-base.org ijon at c-base.org
Wed Jul 29 14:33:57 CEST 2020

WTF. I think I want to add my 2 cents here...

I briefly checked the french structure of associations - it does not say that the associations have to be democractic in itself. Just that they are a pillar of the french democracy. But that does not translate to the internal structure of associations.

Also I checked the manual / "RTFM" page of the space - also there it does not say, that its democratic on the inside. 

So I dont think you have any grounds to stand on, or I havent found where it said in writing, that in this specific association the throwing out of people has to be democratic. 

Also: "threatening to attempt to close the association" is the worst behaviour I can imagine for any space. Based on these grounds alone, I would ask you to leave the space (where I am a member and can do so). If the issue can not be resolved through peaceful discussion, then "leaving" is the better option.

or to put it more cleary: Threaten my space, and you lose all credibility immediately and also you loose all willingness of mine to even attempt a resolution.

One can not be toxic to better anything. Toxicity always is infectious. If I would be part of the bureau of this space, after these emails, there would not be any question left in my mind wether you should go or not. 

Also, demanding a slot for a talk in this behaviour, to present accusations towards a hackerspace, after failing to resolve these issues in person in the hackerspace itself is really bad style. The way you are presenting your accusations in these emails are also very unstructured, does not have enough details. It looks like this is not the whole story, because you are leaving way too much out. On this alone I would never grant you a slot on any event - because I am not convinced, that you would even attempt to present the whole story and not just those bits where you feel unjustly treated. 

No one gets kicked out of a hackerspace without very good reasons and a long backstory. I have perceived these communities in the past as usually extremly inclusive, where even (some) bad behaviour is attributed to personality quirks and overlooked, with the goal of having a peaceful community. Usually shit has to be piled on shit and then some, before a space decides to invest the time, discussion and process to throw someone out. As this is volunteer time, its most likely only then invested, when there seems to be absolutely no other option, and only then when "letting it slip" is no option anymore.


> David Venancio de Campos <metabaron at massmulti.org> hat am 29.07.2020 13:31 geschrieben:
> On 29/07/2020 12:17, aimee at ecohackerfarm.org wrote:
> > David, unfortunately you are still being very cryptic about what 
> > happened.
> One or two persons bypassed the democratic process to put me out.
> In France you don't play with Democracy.
> (not the representative parliament : ASSOCIATIONS which do things where 
> government cannot go : "by citizens for citizens.")
> That is why I could ask for the Tetalab to close at Toulouse's "Palais 
> de Justice".
> I have witnesses and proofs.
> Furthermore I could ask for "DIFAMATION" money. Which I'm not going to.
> NOT All the Lab turned against me, but the "Bureau" decided to put me 
> out without asking anything to all the members.
> Now to complotists out-there : I'm not from the french government 
> neither a spy or anything close to that.
> -D
> ps: ok I'm being salty whatever, toxic whatever FOR BETTER ! That 
> shouldn't happen again !
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