[hackerspaces] Leadership abusing powers. Bullying. Extraordinary General Meetings.

[peter]

On 25/02/15 18:54, Red Davies wrote:
> So I'm going to regret this...
>
> On Wed, Feb 25, 2015 at 12:51 PM, peter <phm at riseup.net> wrote:
>> I beg to differ. I don't care what the 'law' says. I care about what is the
>> right/moral thing to do.
> I think we all care about what is "right/moral" Peter.  The issue of
> course is that we disagree as to the right/moral thing to do in this
> case.  The law is a parseable emotionless framework which is designed
> to address this issue.  Is it perfect? no... but it provides a
> consistent and known framework and sometimes that's the best we can
> do.
>
>> (there is no appeal process, but I can try to call an EGM, which is what I'm
>> doing)
> Good!
>
>> If your government starts committing genocide, would you say 'oh well, they
>> passed a law to make it legal, so there is nothing I can do?'.
> I'm actually really disappointed with you that you erected that
> specific straw-man.  You seem very intelligent so you know already in
> advance why your argument is made of straw.
>
> In a Hackerspace you volunteer to be a member until the bylaws as they
> are written.  You are free to leave at any time.  When it comes to
> government wanting to commit genocide of their own people those people
> have no choice.

Hmmmmm. So you're born into a country and you invest time there and make 
a life there. You can choose to leave that country.

You join a hackspace, you invest time there and make a life there. You 
can choose to leave that hackspace.

Your argument is that these are completely different because .... you're 
not born into a hackspace?




>> I like philosophy/logic/reasoning/rhetoric/critical thinking. I think it's
>> good to practise these skills, and fun to do in it's own right.
> Just like sex.  I like it, I think it's good to practice and fun to do
> in its own right.  That still requires however consenting parties.
>
>> The problem is people who don't like being told why they're wrong.
> Sure, nobody does.  They are however in a position of leadership and
> responsibility which means that they get to make the decisions because
> they're the ones that have to deal with the consequences of the wrong
> decisions being made.  The members have the ability to either:
>
> 0. Hold those individuals to account when it comes time to elections.
> 1. Just leave and do something less boring instead.
>
>
>> Why don't they be all chill and just ignore me?
> ... because as leaders of the organization they have to show
> leadership and deal with PR.  Some allegations have to be responded
> to.  If you make the same, tired assertions again and again then they
> have to be answered to again and again.  This is exhausting.
>
> There are what, over a thousand members of LHS.  Let's just take 1000
> as a round number.  If every member were to take up as much resources
> as you are then there wouldn't be an LHS.  That doesn't mean that
> people shouldn't engage or shouldn't complain.  It means that people
> should respect those people's time and not waste it over thrown away
> pasta.
>
> Proportionality please.
>
> That's it.  Please respect the time of the volunteers.  They sacrifice
> their own project time so others can work on theirs.
>
>
>
> Red
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