[hackerspaces] Leadership abusing powers. Bullying. Extraordinary General Meetings.

[Dan Schmidt]

> Please explain to me why it was hard for them to ignore. It seems very 
> simple to me. Just don't read or reply. 

To decide if something was worth reading you have to read it first. Duh. If you start a conversation about one thing and then derail it and turn it into something else how do others know when it's back on topic? They have to read it. Really, you're a lot nosier/disruptive than you realise.

> Please explain how my posts were threatening. Was there some suggestion 
> that I was going to hurt the cleaner? 

Dehumanising *anyone* is hurtful. Duh.

> Does that sound like someone that's threatening cleaners? 

You flip flop so much it's hard to predict what you're going to do next. Unpredictability can also seem threatening. Besides - you called your own behaviour dehumanising, I'm merely pointing out that's a Bad Thing(tm). Regardless, this is irrelevant. This is the real issue:

> Social conventions are often bad. 
> Challenging what is 'normal' is a good thing. 

And that's the crux of the problem. Makers use hackerspaces to join forces to create things(objects, software, et al). They rely on social convention in order to cooperate and pool resources. Cooperation and compromise are core values of any hackerspace. You need a basic, stable protocol for communication in order to collectively achieve any greater objective. If you're only there to tear down their social conventions and not to make/hack then it's the wrong organisation for you. That's like walking in and dismantling the space's 3D printer because you think you can do it better. They're using the 3D printer and don't want you to dismantle it. If you had simply invited members to participate in a separate discussion about building a 3D printer (or challenging social conventions) in the privacy of a separate topic, IRC channel, whatever things may have turned out differently. 

I suggest you go start your own group to challenge social conventions and leave the makers to their making. They banned you.


________________________________
> Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2015 17:13:10 +0000 
> From: phm at riseup.net 
> To: discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org 
> Subject: Re: [hackerspaces] Leadership abusing powers. Bullying. 
> Extraordinary General Meetings. 
> 
> 
> On 25/02/15 10:48, Dan Schmidt wrote: 
> 
> However, a pub table is a bad analogy for a mailing list. On a list, you 
> can choose to ignore posts or whole threads, and it doesn't prevent you 
> from continuing to participate in the other threads at the same time. 
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously you made it hard for them to ignore you, so they kicked you out. Usually posts and threads which come across as threatening to other members or staff are the ones which cannot be ignored, especially by management. One might argue that dehumanising the cleaner is threatening behaviour. And, I might add, you're the one who called your behaviour dehumanising: 
> 
> Please explain to me why it was hard for them to ignore. It seems very 
> simple to me. Just don't read or reply. 
> 
> Please explain how my posts were threatening. Was there some suggestion 
> that I was going to hurt the cleaner? 
> 
> Why do you think I said in that thread: 
> 
> " Why do you think I clean the space and empty the bins? 
> Cleaning the space is heroic and totally awesome" 
> 
> 
> Does that sound like someone that's threatening cleaners? 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "I like de-humanising. I think it's a good thing." 
> 
> If you habitually and wilfully break from social convention in a social conversation (especially online forums) then you run the risk of presenting yourself as a threat to the fabric that keeps the group together and functioning. There are ways of doing that which are perfectly respectable and civil, as I said, an intellectual exercise presented in a theoretical discussion. Non-threatening == easy to ignore, it's human nature. 
> 
> 
> Social conventions are often bad. 
> 
> I think playing with ideas is good and healthy. 
> 
> Challenging what is 'normal' is a good thing. Some things are 
> convention for good reasons, and some are conventions for bad reasons. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> London hackspace has a lot of members, and I know for a fact that some 
> of them do like my contributions. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They think cos they're not active on IRC or list that they don't exist. 
> 
> 
> 
> If they do exist why don't you arrange your EGM instead of spending your time here trying to rally more supporters? 
> 
> - Dan 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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