[hackerspaces] Refugee Memberships...
Randall Arnold
randall.arnold at texrat.net
Wed Dec 2 17:50:35 CET 2015
As originator of a failed maker foundation and community, I do grok. ;)
Vent cynicism, reboot, make a difference.
Randy
> On December 2, 2015 at 10:42 AM matt <matt at nycresistor.com> wrote:
>
> It is a bit dismissive.
>
> I've gotten somewhat pissed over the years at the tech scene. Every time
> someone tries to do something for the third world they tend to wander in
> blindly with an expectation set based on having never set foot in it. And
> very often those efforts are doomed to failure from the get go. And they end
> up diverting resources for their effort and driving them right into the
> ground.
>
> That's pretty fucked. It's good intentions that end up kicking people
> when they are down. And it could have been avoided.
>
> Refuges in the US are pretty hard pressed to survive here. They have few
> resources, and very little time to establish themselves and meet the
> requirements set upon them by our government. If you want to take their time,
> and you aren't prepare to make use of it for real benefit... seriously
> consider not involving yourself. I mean that.
>
> The average refuge is working two jobs their first year here, and saving
> every single red cent they can. If they give you their time, you need to
> treat it like gold. Because in the balance of power in their lives, there is
> NOTHING more costly to them.
>
> And that's just the issue. You want solutions? begin by volunteering
> with an organization that's been doing this. They won't get it all right and
> they may not be doing the stuff you want to, but you'll learn enough of the
> basics to be that much less of a risk to a very vulnerable group of folks.
>
> Hackerspaces are awesome for a certain class of problems that benefit from
> the do-ocracy and blind creativity that they specialize in. This is not one
> of those problems.
>
> So yeah, I get dismissive. Call it me being old and crotchety.
>
> -matt
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Randall Arnold <randall.arnold at texrat.net
> mailto:randall.arnold at texrat.net > wrote:
>
> > >
> > The thing is, Matt, your original remark came off as utterly
> > dismissive, not qualitative. It seems now that you didn't mean it that
> > way... but as someone who just knows you through your writings here and
> > elsewhere, I was surprised to see it.
> >
> > Moving on.
> >
> > Randy
> >
> > > > > On December 2, 2015 at 10:27 AM matt <matt at nycresistor.com
> > > > > mailto:matt at nycresistor.com > wrote:
> > >
> > > Danyelle, we've known each other a while.
> > >
> > > And I can tell you that the 'hood' in the US for the most part
> > > is lightyears different from the 'hood' in most of the undeveloped world.
> > > Pretty sure you realize that. And I'm not saying joe/sally kid from
> > > anywhere can't learn. Every kid can. But sally and joe adult who have
> > > had a lifetime to grow and solidify who they are are not about to get down
> > > and dirty with the bitscape while facing off with all the shit in the
> > > world being thrown at them.
> > >
> > >
> > > Rest of thread,
> > >
> > > And while I will agree there are no doubt bad ass syrian
> > > developers / hackers out there. Most folks will not have any exposure to
> > > technology or the fundamentals necessary to succeed with it. I am not
> > > saying don't try. I am saying be prepared to go a hell of a lot slower
> > > than you ever have before. And be prepared to realize you are not
> > > equipped or prepared to deal with what you get. And yes our refuge
> > > process is expensive and time consuming resulting usually in allowing in
> > > only the most resolute and prepared. But, that's no reason to go making
> > > assumptions about anything.
> > >
> > > If you can push on through and succeed. Happy happy Joy joy
> > > etc. If not, well... lessons can be learned if you document the
> > > experience.
> > >
> > > Not saying don't try. Just, be ready for something very
> > > different from what you envision and a hell of a lot more frustrating. I
> > > had a co-worker like a decade and a bit back. From a small town in
> > > backwater bumblefuck kenya. He was the next in line for the tribal
> > > leadership so the tribe got together and paid to get him educated in
> > > America. Kid went into software, and I met him as a bad ass j2ee dev.
> > > Fun dude. He never went home ( aside from visits), but did buy them a
> > > ton of cattle every year. But, he explained to me once that his
> > > grandmother would never believe that he'd been aboard an airplane. The
> > > idea was anathema to what she knew of the world. And that sort of
> > > anathema is HARD to get people to climb over. Especially in adverse
> > > conditions. That's what I've experienced in undeveloped countries. And
> > > that's something I think the US and Europe largely do not have a notion
> > > of.
> > >
> > > -Matt
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 11:17 AM, Danyelle Davis
> > > <ddavis at codetemptress.net mailto:ddavis at codetemptress.net > wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > Funny thing is.. when I started in the computer industry
> > > > someone was surprised that there are "computer people in the hood".
> > > > Just because the area may not be known for it doesn't mean interest
> > > > isn't there. Just the right materials is needed.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2015, 11:13 AM Sam Ley <sam.ley at gmail.com
> > > > mailto:sam.ley at gmail.com > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > I appreciate that some
> > > > > > > > > hackerspaces are looking for ways to
> > > > > > > > > become a good resource for resettling
> > > > > > > > > refugees. I have a friend who spent many
> > > > > > > > > years volunteering with refugee
> > > > > > > > > resettlement groups here in Colorado and
> > > > > > > > > always reminded people how much refugees
> > > > > > > > > are disconnected from the basic services
> > > > > > > > > of society, and how just introductions to
> > > > > > > > > people and services in the community means
> > > > > > > > > a lot for their successful resettlement.
> > > > >
> > > > > Regarding tech bases, Syrians in general are quite
> > > > > a bit better educated than the neighboring countries - until recently
> > > > > it was considered prosperous for the region. And since it takes
> > > > > resources to flee, we are getting the most educated groups - among
> > > > > adult Syrian refugees admitted to the US, their level of education is
> > > > > higher than the US population at large, meaning if you approached a
> > > > > group of adult Syrian refugees for hackerspace membership, you'd be
> > > > > more likely to get college educated people than if you approached a
> > > > > random group of US citizens.
> > > > >
> > > > > Syria may not have a huge tech industry or a lot
> > > > > of exports (certainly not now), but that doesn't mean the citizens are
> > > > > dumb, or otherwise not interested in or in need of educational
> > > > > resources once they arrive.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.newsweek.com/who-exactly-are-syrian-refugees-we-have-already-taken-397795
> > > > >
> > > > > https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/09/25/syrian-refugee-crisis-and-higher-education
> > > > >
> > > > > -Sam
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 9:00 AM, Danyelle Davis
> > > > > <ddavis at codetemptress.net mailto:ddavis at codetemptress.net > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > Lol wow.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, Dec 2, 2015, 10:59 AM Danilo
> > > > > > <mail at dbrgn.ch mailto:mail at dbrgn.ch > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Am
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Mi, 2. Dez 2015, um 10:44,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > schrieb matt:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Syria
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is not known for
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it's tech base.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yeah, people form Syria are primitive
> > > > > > > people that dwell in caves and don't have any education
> > > > > > > whatsoever.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Syria
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cheerio from the enlightened central
> > > > > > > Europe
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
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