[hackerspaces] Refugee Memberships...

Wed Dec 2 17:42:32 CET 2015

It is a bit dismissive.

I've gotten somewhat pissed over the years at the tech scene.  Every time
someone tries to do something for the third world they tend to wander in
blindly with an expectation set based on having never set foot in it.  And
very often those efforts are doomed to failure from the get go.  And they
end up diverting resources for their effort and driving them right into the
ground.

That's pretty fucked.  It's good intentions that end up kicking people when
they are down.  And it could have been avoided.

Refuges in the US are pretty hard pressed to survive here.  They have few
resources, and very little time to establish themselves and meet the
requirements set upon them by our government.  If you want to take their
time, and you aren't prepare to make use of it for real benefit...
seriously consider not involving yourself.  I mean that.

The average refuge is working two jobs their first year here, and saving
every single red cent they can.  If they give you their time, you need to
treat it like gold.  Because in the balance of power in their lives, there
is NOTHING more costly to them.

And that's just the issue.  You want solutions?  begin by volunteering with
an organization that's been doing this.  They won't get it all right and
they may not be doing the stuff you want to, but you'll learn enough of the
basics to be that much less of a risk to a very vulnerable group of folks.

Hackerspaces are awesome for a certain class of problems that benefit from
the do-ocracy and blind creativity that they specialize in.   This is not
one of those problems.

So yeah, I get dismissive.  Call it me being old and crotchety.

-matt

On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 11:32 AM, Randall Arnold <randall.arnold at texrat.net>
wrote:

> The thing is, Matt, your original remark came off as utterly dismissive,
> not qualitative.  It seems now that you didn't mean it that way... but as
> someone who just knows you through your writings here and elsewhere, I was
> surprised to see it.
>
> Moving on.
>
> Randy
>
> On December 2, 2015 at 10:27 AM matt <matt at nycresistor.com> wrote:
>
> Danyelle, we've known each other a while.
>
> And I can tell you that the 'hood' in the US for the most part is
> lightyears different from the 'hood' in most of the undeveloped world.
> Pretty sure you realize that.  And I'm not saying joe/sally kid from
> anywhere can't learn.  Every kid can.  But sally and joe adult who have had
> a lifetime to grow and solidify who they are are not about to get down and
> dirty with the bitscape while facing off with all the shit in the world
> being thrown at them.
>
>
> Rest of thread,
>
> And while I will agree there are no doubt bad ass syrian developers /
> hackers out there.  Most folks will not have any exposure to technology or
> the fundamentals necessary to succeed with it.  I am not saying don't try.
> I am saying be prepared to go a hell of a lot slower than you ever have
> before.  And be prepared to realize you are not equipped or prepared to
> deal with what you get.  And yes our refuge process is expensive and time
> consuming resulting usually in allowing in only the most resolute and
> prepared.  But, that's no reason to go making assumptions about anything.
>
> If you can push on through and succeed.  Happy happy Joy joy etc.  If not,
> well... lessons can be learned if you document the experience.
>
> Not saying don't try.  Just, be ready for something very different from
> what you envision and a hell of a lot more frustrating.  I had a co-worker
> like a decade and a bit back.  From a small town in backwater bumblefuck
> kenya.  He was the next in line for the tribal leadership so the tribe got
> together and paid to get him educated in America.  Kid went into software,
> and I met him as a bad ass j2ee dev.  Fun dude.  He never went home ( aside
> from visits), but did buy them a ton of cattle every year.  But, he
> explained to me once that his grandmother would never believe that he'd
> been aboard an airplane.  The idea was anathema to what she knew of the
> world.  And that sort of anathema is HARD to get people to climb over.
> Especially in adverse conditions.  That's what I've experienced in
> undeveloped countries.  And that's something I think the US and Europe
> largely do not have a notion of.
>
> -Matt
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 11:17 AM, Danyelle Davis <ddavis at codetemptress.net>
> wrote:
>
> Funny thing is.. when I started in the computer industry someone was
> surprised that there are "computer people in the hood".  Just because the
> area may not be known for it doesn't mean interest isn't there.  Just the
> right materials is needed.
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015, 11:13 AM Sam Ley <sam.ley at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I appreciate that some hackerspaces are looking for ways to become a good
> resource for resettling refugees. I have a friend who spent many years
> volunteering with refugee resettlement groups here in Colorado and always
> reminded people how much refugees are disconnected from the basic services
> of society, and how just introductions to people and services in the
> community means a lot for their successful resettlement.
>
> Regarding tech bases, Syrians in general are quite a bit better educated
> than the neighboring countries - until recently it was considered
> prosperous for the region. And since it takes resources to flee, we are
> getting the most educated groups - among adult Syrian refugees admitted to
> the US, their level of education is higher than the US population at large,
> meaning if you approached a group of adult Syrian refugees for hackerspace
> membership, you'd be more likely to get college educated people than if you
> approached a random group of US citizens.
>
> Syria may not have a huge tech industry or a lot of exports (certainly not
> now), but that doesn't mean the citizens are dumb, or otherwise not
> interested in or in need of educational resources once they arrive.
>
>
> http://www.newsweek.com/who-exactly-are-syrian-refugees-we-have-already-taken-397795
>
> https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/09/25/syrian-refugee-crisis-and-higher-education
>
> -Sam
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015 at 9:00 AM, Danyelle Davis <ddavis at codetemptress.net>
> wrote:
>
> Lol wow.
>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015, 10:59 AM Danilo <mail at dbrgn.ch> wrote:
>
> Am Mi, 2. Dez 2015, um 10:44, schrieb matt:
>
> Syria is not known for it's tech base.
>
>
> Yeah, people form Syria are primitive people that dwell in caves and don't
> have any education whatsoever.
>
> https://wiki.hackerspaces.org/Syria
>
> Cheerio from the enlightened central Europe
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