[hackerspaces] In defense of Noisebridge (even if I was never there!)
Colin Keigher
general at keyboardcowboy.ca
Thu Jul 3 20:19:16 CEST 2014
Please stop calling it "civic hacking". It's called "activism" and it
has no business in the hackerspace movement.
On 03/07/2014 11:15, Randall G. Arnold wrote:
> So Colin, are you then philosophically opposed to civic hacking? Do
> you see it as out of scope for a maker/hacker space? If so, do you
> have an alternative in mind for an organizing body? Truly curious.
> Randy
>> On July 3, 2014 at 1:09 PM Colin Keigher <general at keyboardcowboy.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I think that allowing a space to call itself a "hackerspace" while
>> trying to become something more poisons the movement for everyone
>> else and likely ruins it.
>>
>> Groups like IndyMedia failed because of their insistence on promoting
>> a viewpoint that was extreme. This viewpoint ended up coming into
>> play because of individuals who got involved who had certain
>> attitudes. It is these same types of individuals who contributed to
>> IMCs being looked down upon. Tragedy of the commons really played a
>> role in making IndyMedia irrelevant.
>>
>> This same plague that took down many of the IMCs is the same plague
>> that can take over a hackerspace. This is the plague you want to
>> avoid if you want to make sure that your space does not end up trying
>> to become something it has no business becoming. Much of the problems
>> that people want to tackle that spaces have no business being a part
>> of should be addressed in the public sphere through government and
>> political activism. A hackerspace should only be there to provide
>> tools to assist, not solutions.
>>
>> Asking for diversity in hackerspaces as a whole is going to lead to
>> hackerspaces being looked down upon and will lead to
>> Noisebridge-esque jokes being hackerspace-esque instead.
>>
>> - Colin
>>
>> On 03/07/2014 10:52, matt wrote:
>>> I'd think this strikes to the heart of defining the mission of a
>>> space. At NYC Resistor we went with Learn, Make, Share... but
>>> obviously we needed to limit some other aspects of what we might
>>> accomplish in order to protect the core mission.
>>>
>>> And that core mission really is the gooey center of our community.
>>> It's something we're all on board with.
>>> So I think the question of politically activism in hackerspaces
>>> strikes to the very core of a hackerspace as a community. By being
>>> political you've become unwelcoming to those who might disagree with
>>> your views, and your goals. You've focused more on building the
>>> community you want to be a part of.
>>> I'd say that's probably a good thing for those who are part of that
>>> community and make that community a healthy one.
>>>
>>> That being said, I think some communities are obviously toxic...
>>> such as what remains of Occupy. And frankly, I'd say the same of
>>> Indymedia. It's interesting as it drives to the core of how do you
>>> cultivate and how do you define the metric of success for a healthy
>>> community?
>>> At the same time there is the dichotomy of hackerspace as a public
>>> utility rather than as a community. My library is not a place I go
>>> to enjoy the company of my peers. It's a place I go to get access
>>> to shared knowledge in the form of books. And that's great.
>>> Some spaces may want to be ran as a public utility. I think the
>>> noisebridge model drove that direction. But some of the members
>>> never could let go of the idea of being a community and enjoying the
>>> benefits of that trust relationship. They couldn't reconcile the
>>> divide between hackerspace as a public utility and hackerspace as a
>>> community.
>>>
>>> And I think at the core of this discussion is the question of
>>> whether or not these two views are irreconcilable.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 1:46 PM, Randall G. Arnold
>>> <randall.arnold at texrat.net <mailto:randall.arnold at texrat.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Texas politics are very polarized these days and get ugly quick,
>>> so we've tried to get our community to leave that aspect of
>>> their lives at home. There's a strong tea party undercurrent to
>>> our membership though, and it is what it is. So far people have
>>> been respectful enough to let the provocative comments be, and
>>> we haven't had an issue. Yet.
>>> That said, I'm not sure how that question came out of what I
>>> posted, which was apolitical. I do get that societal issues CAN
>>> get political, but we've put a lot of effort into avoiding the
>>> polarizing aspects. Things like clean air and water aren't
>>> really political issues-- they're politicized by people with
>>> non-maker agendas. Restoring horned lizards cuts across all
>>> demographics here-- everyone wants them brought back. So in
>>> cases like these, it's easy to pull together people of diverse
>>> political leanings. We put our focus on the COMMON goals.
>>> Randy
>>> Tarrant Makers
>>>> On July 3, 2014 at 12:32 PM Al Billings < albill at openbuddha.com
>>>> <mailto:albill at openbuddha.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Is your space welcoming to people, regardless of personal
>>>> politics or do you have to be a specific kind of
>>>> lefty/socialist/anarchist/hippy/whatever in order to be welcome?
>>>> I say this as a socialist but I don’t want there to be a
>>>> political litmus test on whether people are welcome in a space.
>>>> My space has members who, quietly on occasion, bitch about
>>>> Obama and his “agenda” with an eye roll from some other
>>>> members. We have a communist or two and probably more than a
>>>> few anarchists. Generally, I know someone for a year or more
>>>> before I even realize their personal politics. Why? Because
>>>> we’re there to hack, not to form a political party.
>>>> There are definitely spaces where this isn’t the case. If you
>>>> aren’t on board with the specific local politics (which are
>>>> usually a certain specific form of left leaning anarchism), you
>>>> are shunned pretty heavily and “don’t fit in.” I’d rather have
>>>> a Republican that wants to build a project from salvaged
>>>> computers than an anarchist that just wants to hang out in the
>>>> kitchen “food hacking.”
>>>> Al
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 3, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Randall G. Arnold <
>>>> randall.arnold at texrat.net <mailto:randall.arnold at texrat.net>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I disagree when you frame that as an absolute. Sure, there CAN
>>>>> be negative outcomes when a maker/hacker space or organization
>>>>> has fixing societal problems as a goal, but it ain't
>>>>> necessarily so. It all comes down to defining the goal(s),
>>>>> having people to support them and for members with different
>>>>> goals to be respectful of each other and not get in each
>>>>> other's way.
>>>>> If as a makerspace member I put together a special interest
>>>>> group that builds remote wildlife monitoring stations for
>>>>> helping horned lizard conservation, and I don't disrupt anyone
>>>>> else in the process, then I'm positively hacking the planet
>>>>> and no one gets hurt. Win-win.
>>>>
>>>> Al Billings
>>>> albill at openbuddha.com <mailto:albill at openbuddha.com>
>>>> http://makehacklearn.org
>>>
>>> Randall (Randy) Arnold
>>> Developer and Enthusiast Advocate
>>> http://texrat.net
>>> +18177396806 <tel:%2B18177396806>
>>>
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