[hackerspaces] Safe Space Policies?

Mon Jan 27 06:15:40 CET 2014

Madelynn,

I feel I need to point something out.  Your invitation to that form says "If
any women in hackerspaces have stories of sexism they'd like to share with
me for an article".

One of your questions in your form is: "Have you had any experiences of
sexism, misogyny, harassment, or assault in a hackerspace?"

Given your invitation I would suggest that you've already skewed your
results.

On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 11:48 PM, Madelynn Martiniere <mmartiniere at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Just because hackers haven't written on this topic doesn't mean it isn't
> true. Most women won't come out and discuss sexism and misogyny in
> hackerspaces for fear of retribution or general disregard.
>
> On that note, maybe it's time for an article from hackers. If any women in
> hackerspaces have stories of sexism they'd like to share with me for an
> article, I put together a quick form:
> https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1FzjcEeNgzZfqdkhe3_6EU-Mp_xau4ppaOfN2o2vTMWU/viewform
>
>   matt <matt at nycresistor.com>
>  January 26, 2014 8:22 PM
> none of those links are from hackers or hacker related sources.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>   Al Billings <albill at openbuddha.com>
>  January 26, 2014 8:17 PM
> A list of links about hacker culture and diversity for your reading
> pleasure.
>
>
> http://www.npr.org/blogs/alltechconsidered/2013/09/11/221052414/sexism-in-the-tech-industry-takes-center-stage
>
> https://www.fsinf.at/dear-hacker-community-%E2%80%93-we-need-talk
>
> http://blogs.westword.com/showandtell/2013/09/the_problem_of_dickwolves.php
>
>
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57495650-83/sexism-and-the-single-hacker-defcons-feminist-moment/
>
> http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/03/richards-affair-and-misogyny-in-tech/
>
> http://pando.com/2013/08/31/hackers-and-sexism-at-defcon/
>
> http://io9.com/5938698/the-great-geek-sexism-debate
>
> http://blogs.osuosl.org/gchaix/2010/11/07/open-source-misogyny/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>   Red Davies <noiddicle at gmail.com>
>  January 26, 2014 8:11 PM
> or Al, we don't accept people who display those traits in the first place
> then we don't need to worry about it.
>
> Perhaps that's the problem you have.  If you're inclusive of assholes then
> you have to have rules, policies and signs.  I hate to tell you, but rules,
> policies and signs do not change assholes.  They embolden them.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>   Al Billings <albill at openbuddha.com>
>  January 26, 2014 7:56 PM
> You mean one that someone said something about. How do you know that
> female visitors haven’t simply failed to return because of leering,
> mainsplaining, or various other behaviors? You don’t. The fact that you’re
> unwilling to even state a public policy against such things mean that when
> (not if but when) they happen, women won’t necessarily assume that the
> person is an outlier but that it is accepted behavior. Then they leave.
>
> Really, it is like Diversity 101 here. You’ve never bothered to think
> about any of this stuff before from something other than your own point of
> view, have you?
>
> ------------------------------
> From: Red Davies Red Davies <noiddicle at gmail.com>
> Reply: Hackerspaces General Discussion List discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> Date: January 26, 2014 at 7:56:18 PM
> To: Hackerspaces General Discussion List discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> Subject:  Re: [hackerspaces] Safe Space Policies?
> --
> Al Billings
> http://makehacklearn.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>   Red Davies <noiddicle at gmail.com>
>  January 26, 2014 7:56 PM
> So, I can answer that question easily.
>
> When people walk into the space they are always welcomed.  You know, by an
> individual and not a fucking sign.  We welcome them, ask them what their
> interests are, introduce them to people who have similar interests, give
> them the 2c tour, get them to sign a waiver and GENUINELY welcome them in
> on the basis that they are breathing[0] and interested in the same stuff we
> are.
>
> A sign is worthless if you don't have a community that lives it.
>
> If you have a community that lives it then the sign is redundant.
>
> We've had one case of lecherous behavior towards a female guest.  We made
> **him** the prey.  Once he became prey he learned **WHY** his behavior was
> unacceptable (and we never saw him again).  That's a two-for-one!
>
>
>
> Red
> [0] To be clear, zombies would probably be welcome too - we've just not
> tried recruiting any by, you know... hanging out in graveyards, political
> rallies etc...
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
> --
> Madelynn Martiniere
> Community Engineer. Entrepreneur. Geek.
> LinkedIn <http://www.linkedin.com/in/madelynnmartiniere> | Twitter <http://www.twitter.com/creativetaboo>|
> Email <madelynn at women2.com>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
>
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