[hackerspaces] Insurance, liability and kids

Arclight arclight at gmail.com
Wed Sep 4 21:13:44 CEST 2013


I see a couple of issues here. First off, I assume you have some sort of
written lease or rental agreement. Does it state that you are required to
carry insurance? If so, then your landlord is absolutely right in enforcing
this provision right now.

Did you represent what you would be doing as being different than what you
are doing now? If so, then that is certainly grounds for the landlord
demanding  frank conversation about your present use of said space. That
being said:

1. You are his/her customer. It's not appropriate for him to come in to
your space uninvited and have a meltdown in front of your guests. Normal
landlords handle this sort of thing with a phone call the next day, or by
coming by discretely and saying "Can I have a word with you?" if they see
something that needs attention ASAP.  This is not professional behavior on
his part. After you resolve the current problem, you really should
establish boundaries for what is and isn't an appropriate visit.

You are paying a bunch of money for exclusive use of his space. Just
because his brother-in-law rented it before and was cool with him coming in
and out all day doesn't mean you should tolerate that.

2. If you don't have a lease then this is a failure on both your parts.
Sorting out responsibility for the building and activities is normally done
before you sign a lease.  Normal leases usually include stuff like:

-What the landlord agrees to maintain (i.e. all common areas, the fire
alarm and sprinklers, the structure itself.)

-What you are responsible for maintaining (i.e. your signage, tenant
improvements, plumbing fixtures inside, etc)

-Insurance requirements. Requiring you to maintain a basic "premises
liability policy" of $X that specifically names the landlord and covers
fire, damage to property, and personal injuries is pretty typical.

If you haven't looked into insurance at all, and you are now established
enough to be hosting these kind of events, then this is also a planning
failure on the part of your group.

We don't bill our space as kid-friendly at all, but we do allow people to
bring their kids if they are responsible and looked after by their
parents.  Everyone has a different approach to this sort of thing.


On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 10:13 AM, john lunger <justj1915 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I would like a deep discussion about insurance, liability and kids.
> We were at a great hackerspace last night and they have weekly events for
> kids.
> Unfortunately the landlord goes on rampages and happened to rampage about
> the kids being in a common room last night in front of the kids and parents.
> One of my daughters (11yrs ) was privy to this unfortunately and is still
> talking about it this morning. She is a bit worried that she won;t be able
> to go back to this hackerspace as she really enjoys her time there. Luckily
> I don't think my other kids heard it. Maybe my preschooler  may have but he
> might have also been oblivious about the whole thing.
> Several adults went and corralled the landlord outside to get him to calm
> down. My daughter says she is worried he will come back and do that again.
> According to the adults he was complaining about some kind of liability
> issue and insurance among other things.
> I don;t think this hackerspace has looked into insurance yet or might be
> in the process of it right now after last nights event.
> Can anyone shed some light to this whole thing?
> What options does a hackerspace has with an unruly landlord?
> What can we do bureaucratic wise to make him quiet down?
> Carolyn
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
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