[hackerspaces] Women in Makerspaces

Melissa Hall melissa.hall at gmail.com
Thu Jan 17 21:02:54 CET 2013

> Hi! A question, what exactly do you want to know from other women? If
> they also feel uncomfortable when there's less than 15% or so women? Or
> what values we seek in makerspaces/hackerspaces? If other women think
> they can take leadership? Or if they actually would like to take
> leadership? Or if we need another women to take leadership? Or... all of
> the above?!
> Grtz,
> Spider

Spider- Any of those things would seem like an interesting thing to
discuss, this was really more a sort of this is how I feel, how do you feel
thing than a request for data.

Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 18:12:37 +0100 (CET)
> From: quemener.yves at free.fr
> To: Hackerspaces General Discussion List
>         <discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org>
> Subject: Re: [hackerspaces] Women in Makerspaces
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> > De: "Melissa Hall" <melissa.hall at gmail.com>
> > I also know that, for me, there is a kind of "hacker culture" "macho"
> > that also works poorly for me. That is the idea that focus and time
> > is the measure of value. The values I prefer in space to feel
> > comfortable are "taking care of each other", which can sometimes rub
> > rugged individualists the wrong way, but which I have also always
> > felt is a deep part of the geek/hacker/maker culture we all share.
> That is interesting, because it is the first time I see the idea of
> dedication and focus labelled as "macho". I would like to understand
> what makes you think that this is somehow an anti-feminine value. I
> have never seen anyone claim that being focused on a project is a
> masculine value or somehow requires more testosterone than caffeine.

To me "Macho" is not exclusively male and refers to an attitude that "I can
take it, I am tougher, and harder and can keep going when others fail".
 Being "tough enough" to take long hours or poor working conditions is
something I see as Macho.  I also see women who put up with boys clubs,
being hit on aggressively and being sexualized as being Macho because they
are proving they can take it.

It is a quirky definition of the word and I probably should not have used
it without better definition, but the I can take it form of Macho is just a
common in hacker communities (the game programming world seems to run on
it) as it is in high level sports.  If you are likely to get called a wuss
for wanting better treatment, I consider that a macho environment.

Given that perspective can you see why I see "grinding" as Macho?

> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 12:29:56 -0600
> From: Tim Saylor <tim.saylor at gmail.com>
> To: Hackerspaces General Discussion List
>         <discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org>
> Subject: Re: [hackerspaces] Women in Makerspaces
> Message-ID:
>         <CAM1yh5X_nihitXz8TmzLRBVCUmaEv=-
> a_5hO566+scqpYp42-w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 7:43 AM, Melissa Hall <melissa.hall at gmail.com
> >wrote:
> > And I hesitate to talk about such things in "geek space" without data to
> > backing.
> You should know that even when people call you out and say you're wrong,
> other people (like me) are listening and learning, and trying to improve
> the culture in their communities.
> --
> @tsaylor
> http://www.timsaylor.com/

Thank you.
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