<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">Hi! A question, what exactly do you want to know from other women? If <br>
</span><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">they also feel uncomfortable when there's less than 15% or so women? Or <br></span><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">what values we seek in makerspaces/hackerspaces? If other women think <br>
</span><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">they can take leadership? Or if they actually would like to take <br></span><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">leadership? Or if we need another women to take leadership? Or... all of <br>
</span><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">the above?!</span><font face="monospace"><span style="white-space:pre-wrap"><br></span></font><span style="white-space:pre-wrap">Grtz,<br></span>Spider</blockquote><div><br></div>
<div>Spider- Any of those things would seem like an interesting thing to discuss, this was really more a sort of this is how I feel, how do you feel thing than a request for data.</div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 18:12:37 +0100 (CET)<br>
From: <a href="mailto:quemener.yves@free.fr">quemener.yves@free.fr</a><br>
To: Hackerspaces General Discussion List<br>
<<a href="mailto:discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org">discuss@lists.hackerspaces.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [hackerspaces] Women in Makerspaces<br>
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> De: "Melissa Hall" <<a href="mailto:melissa.hall@gmail.com">melissa.hall@gmail.com</a>><br>
> I also know that, for me, there is a kind of "hacker culture" "macho"<br>
> that also works poorly for me. That is the idea that focus and time<br>
> is the measure of value. The values I prefer in space to feel<br>
> comfortable are "taking care of each other", which can sometimes rub<br>
> rugged individualists the wrong way, but which I have also always<br>
> felt is a deep part of the geek/hacker/maker culture we all share.<br>
<br>
That is interesting, because it is the first time I see the idea of<br>
dedication and focus labelled as "macho". I would like to understand<br>
what makes you think that this is somehow an anti-feminine value. I<br>
have never seen anyone claim that being focused on a project is a<br>
masculine value or somehow requires more testosterone than caffeine.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>To me "Macho" is not exclusively male and refers to an attitude that "I can take it, I am tougher, and harder and can keep going when others fail". Being "tough enough" to take long hours or poor working conditions is something I see as Macho. I also see women who put up with boys clubs, being hit on aggressively and being sexualized as being Macho because they are proving they can take it.</div>
<div><br></div><div>It is a quirky definition of the word and I probably should not have used it without better definition, but the I can take it form of Macho is just a common in hacker communities (the game programming world seems to run on it) as it is in high level sports. If you are likely to get called a wuss for wanting better treatment, I consider that a macho environment.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Given that perspective can you see why I see "grinding" as Macho?</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2013 12:29:56 -0600<br>
From: Tim Saylor <<a href="mailto:tim.saylor@gmail.com">tim.saylor@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: Hackerspaces General Discussion List<br>
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Subject: Re: [hackerspaces] Women in Makerspaces<br>
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On Thu, Jan 17, 2013 at 7:43 AM, Melissa Hall <<a href="mailto:melissa.hall@gmail.com">melissa.hall@gmail.com</a>>wrote:<br>
<br>
> And I hesitate to talk about such things in "geek space" without data to<br>
> backing.<br>
<br>
<br>
You should know that even when people call you out and say you're wrong,<br>
other people (like me) are listening and learning, and trying to improve<br>
the culture in their communities.<br>
<br>
--<br>
@tsaylor<br>
<a href="http://www.timsaylor.com/" target="_blank">http://www.timsaylor.com/</a></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Thank you.</div><div> </div></div>