[hackerspaces] DARPA Selects Hackerspace Space Program for contract negotiation

[Matt Joyce]

oops got my threads mixed up.  the space thing that's an interesting question.

I know there are open data initiatives an citizen science as well as
international space efforts.

=/

On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Joe Bowser <bowserj at gmail.com> wrote:
> I was referring to this Hackerspaces Space Program thread. Even though I'm
> not thrilled with the DARPA thing, I still plan on checking out MakerFaire
> as an attendee, and not as a participant.
>
> On Apr 3, 2012 3:06 PM, "Matt Joyce" <matt at nycresistor.com> wrote:
>>
>> Maker Faire is not ITAR =P
>>
>> It's a public forum.
>>
>> Internationals are welcome.
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Joe Bowser <bowserj at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I still have yet to hear the concerns of those of us who aren't in the
>> > US
>> > addressed. I assume this is a US citizens and residents only venture?
>> >
>> > On Apr 3, 2012 2:58 PM, "Matt Joyce" <matt at nycresistor.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hell anything of sufficient mass put in orbit can be used as a pretty
>> >> nasty weapon.
>> >>
>> >> Start there.  See how far you get before the military is involved.
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 2:57 PM, Tim Miller <timmillertech at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Those of us that are not strongly against military or those who
>> >> > remember
>> >> > that the space shuttle was funded largely by the military to carry
>> >> > weapons
>> >> > and spy satellites. Maybe we fully support getting support from DARPA
>> >> > and
>> >> > all you that curse the name of anything military are passing
>> >> > judgement
>> >> > that
>> >> > maybe you are not warranted to give. The formation and success of
>> >> > NASA
>> >> > was
>> >> > largely because of military money.  It seems people forget where that
>> >> > money
>> >> > really comes from, it comes from our paychecks and if it has to get
>> >> > funneled
>> >> > through hell and passed out by the devil to get to where we want to
>> >> > go,
>> >> > maybe that is our choice as hackers.  Defense doesn't always mean
>> >> > bigger
>> >> > badder space lasers. Defense can also be making sure that the skills
>> >> > needed
>> >> > to maintain a country's infrastructure are intact and keep and expand
>> >> > the
>> >> > country's manufacturing and continue to grow the skills methods
>> >> > and facilities. We have already seen what happens when you put all of
>> >> > a
>> >> > type
>> >> > of manufacturing ability in an one region.  The new
>> >> > grand experiment is
>> >> > if
>> >> > we can do better in our distributed community shops and if you have a
>> >> > problem with working with people with the same goal as yours so be
>> >> > it,
>> >> > go
>> >> > join that group and sit back while the rest of us succeed in an
>> >> > awesome
>> >> > manner or fail miserably knowing we tried something. And the next
>> >> > time
>> >> > your
>> >> > city is decimated by a natural disaster go up to the National
>> >> > Guard member
>> >> > doing everything they can to help and tell them go away you don't
>> >> > want
>> >> > anything to do with the military.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Marc Juul <juul at labitat.dk> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 4:31 PM, Jerry Isdale <isdale at gmail.com>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > My Fellow Hackers...
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Today I got an email from DARPA stating that they have selected
>> >> >> > our
>> >> >> > "Hackerspace Space Program" for contract negotiation.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Interesting / Congratulations? What does that mean exactly? How
>> >> >> certain is it that you will get funding?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > Those who want to flame about taking government money can do so..
>> >> >> > We
>> >> >> > just
>> >> >> > wont pass any $ your way.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> While I am very happy to see more interest / funding for
>> >> >> space-related
>> >> >> hacker activities I think there are some important issues here that
>> >> >> you may be ignoring. One is that by calling yourselves the
>> >> >> "hackerspace space program" you are associating hackers, the
>> >> >> hackerspace movement and specifically everyone working on
>> >> >> space-related projects in hackerspaces with DARPA and the military.
>> >> >> Knowing that there are many who are strongly anti-military, it would
>> >> >> make sense to call name this project something else, perhaps
>> >> >> something
>> >> >> less general?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This is not just government, this is military funding. That is an
>> >> >> important distinction for many.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If is of course your decision who you fund, but starting out by
>> >> >> calling any criticism of your decision to apply for military funding
>> >> >> using the hackerspace name "flaming" seems itself fairly
>> >> >> inflammatory.
>> >> >> The term hacker is for many associated with a strong sense of
>> >> >> ethics,
>> >> >> and it is always a good idea to be mindful of the people who
>> >> >> disagree
>> >> >> with your actions on ethical grounds, even if you end up not acting
>> >> >> on
>> >> >> their criticism.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> As you are obviously aware there are people who will be unwilling to
>> >> >> work with you on this project once you accept this funding. I wonder
>> >> >> if you have done any research to estimate the loss in expertise,
>> >> >> manpower and ideas, or how much of a rift this will cause in the
>> >> >> hacker/maker community?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> This news comes close to the news that the Maker Faire has accepted
>> >> >> DARPA funding, so when I mention a rift in the community it may be
>> >> >> bigger than just this one project.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> For those who are suspicious of military involvement but not
>> >> >> outright
>> >> >> unwilling to work with a DARPA funded project, it would be really
>> >> >> useful to have a summary of the extent and terms of this project and
>> >> >> funding: What are the strings attached from DARPA? Are there any
>> >> >> countries you will not be allowed to work with and do any of them
>> >> >> have
>> >> >> DIY space groups or hackerspaces that will be excluded? Will you own
>> >> >> the copyright to anything copyright'able you produce and will you
>> >> >> control licensing / patenting? Where is the project description (can
>> >> >> we read the proposal you sent to DARPA)? Who will control the
>> >> >> funding
>> >> >> and how will it be divided between project participants?  How much
>> >> >> funding did you apply for and how certain are you that you will get
>> >> >> it? Who are involved with this project already?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> --
>> >> >> Marc Juul
>> >> >> _______________________________________________
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