[hackerspaces] will the fruits of our labors be used for, good or for evil?

[Will Bradley]

Phew I didn't mean to set off a shitstorm. Let's just try not to kill each
other, k guys?

On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:13 PM, Al Jigen Billings
<albill at openbuddha.com>wrote:

> On 11/29/11 10:04 PM, Volatile Compound wrote:
>
>> Fine.  You may do so, but be aware that the reason you have just outlined
>> above is one based purely on personal politics.  It's your right to make
>> your decision along those lines, but not your right to determine that that
>> is the correct course of action for all hackerspaces.
>>
>
> Ah but it is my right to speak my opinions on the matter to add a
> viewpoint so others can actually reflect on the possibility of a downside
> before they go "Oh well, it's free money. Why not?" That's the point of
> having a public discussion, is it not?
>
>
>  And exactly why you shouldn't explicitly join the military-industrial
>>> complex.
>>>
>>
>> Again, sounds like a personal issue.
>>
>
> I'm sure the Iraqis consider it very personal and probably soon the
> Iranians will as well.
>
>
>  Frankly, if any hackerspace is soliciting donations from any corporate or
>> governmental body, the Officers and Board (at the very least) of the
>> hackerspace should be in agreement as to from whom they do and do not
>> solicit financial assistance from.  This is something that can be resolved
>> case-by-case at the individual hackerspaces, *not* on a mailing list.
>>
>
>  Sure but it is a valid topic of conversation on a list dedicated to the
> discussion of hackerspaces, is it not?
>
>
>  Well, I do run a hackerspace as president and a board member so, yeah, I
>>> might have a bit of an axe to grind. I have a dog in this fight as it
>>> were.
>>>
>>
>> Fair enough, and I should clarify that as of recently I sit on the board
>> of one.  As for having "a dog in this fight", I'm having a difficult time
>> seeing where the fight actually is - as best as I can tell from what was
>> written below, this was a matter of internal discussions that spilled over
>> here.
>>
>
>  You've misread if you mean by the above that it is a matter of internal
> discussions at my hackerspace. I meant that this is a reoccurring topic
> that a number of hackerspaces are discussing on their own lists.
>
>  My hackerspace hasn't discussed it except informally and it was with much
> eye rolling about being a tool of the DoD's attempt to co-opt the
> hackerspace movement for its own benefit and propaganda.
>
>
>   Now that you have informed us of this, what's supposed to happen?  Are
>> we meant to fall into lockstep with your point of view, debate the issue,
>> or ignore it entirely?  As best I can tell, you brought the issue onto this
>> list (probably in hope of engendering support for your point of view), and
>> didn't exactly find what you were hoping for.  So now what?
>>
>
>  I didn't bring the issue up on this list. I responded to the existing
> discussion here. THAT is the point: discussion.
>
>
>  Nah, I'll talk about it here but thanks.
>>
>> If you really must, then I suppose you must.  However, I'm curious as to
>> why you feel this can't be resolved at the level of the individual
>> hackerspaces through voting - I mean, it's not like this list is where the
>> Mayor of the Hackerspaces will decree that you are absolutely correct and
>> all hackerspaces must bow to your will in this matter.
>>
>
>  True but if people from hackerspaces considering this know that, for
> example, members of most other hackerspaces think it is very uncool and
> morally questionable to take this sort of money, perhaps it will factor
> into their discussions and decision making. If we just shut up and drop it,
> then those of us who do feel strongly on this issue miss out on an
> opportunity to affect how this plays out in the long run.
>
>  Hackerspaces aren't a tool for the military and military research except
> indirectly at best. Let's keep it that way.
>
> Al
>
>
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