Phew I didn't mean to set off a shitstorm. Let's just try not to kill each other, k guys?<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:13 PM, Al Jigen Billings <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:albill@openbuddha.com">albill@openbuddha.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div class="im">On 11/29/11 10:04 PM, Volatile Compound wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Fine. You may do so, but be aware that the reason you have just outlined above is one based purely on personal politics. It's your right to make your decision along those lines, but not your right to determine that that is the correct course of action for all hackerspaces.<br>
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Ah but it is my right to speak my opinions on the matter to add a viewpoint so others can actually reflect on the possibility of a downside before they go "Oh well, it's free money. Why not?" That's the point of having a public discussion, is it not?<div class="im">
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
And exactly why you shouldn't explicitly join the military-industrial<br>
complex.<br>
</blockquote>
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Again, sounds like a personal issue.<br>
</blockquote>
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I'm sure the Iraqis consider it very personal and probably soon the Iranians will as well.<div class="im"><br>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Frankly, if any hackerspace is soliciting donations from any corporate or governmental body, the Officers and Board (at the very least) of the hackerspace should be in agreement as to from whom they do and do not solicit financial assistance from. This is something that can be resolved case-by-case at the individual hackerspaces, *not* on a mailing list.<br>
</blockquote>
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Sure but it is a valid topic of conversation on a list dedicated to the discussion of hackerspaces, is it not?<div class="im"><br>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Well, I do run a hackerspace as president and a board member so, yeah, I<br>
might have a bit of an axe to grind. I have a dog in this fight as it were.<br>
</blockquote>
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Fair enough, and I should clarify that as of recently I sit on the board of one. As for having "a dog in this fight", I'm having a difficult time seeing where the fight actually is - as best as I can tell from what was written below, this was a matter of internal discussions that spilled over here.<br>
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You've misread if you mean by the above that it is a matter of internal discussions at my hackerspace. I meant that this is a reoccurring topic that a number of hackerspaces are discussing on their own lists.<br>
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My hackerspace hasn't discussed it except informally and it was with much eye rolling about being a tool of the DoD's attempt to co-opt the hackerspace movement for its own benefit and propaganda.<div class="im">
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Now that you have informed us of this, what's supposed to happen? Are we meant to fall into lockstep with your point of view, debate the issue, or ignore it entirely? As best I can tell, you brought the issue onto this list (probably in hope of engendering support for your point of view), and didn't exactly find what you were hoping for. So now what?<br>
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I didn't bring the issue up on this list. I responded to the existing discussion here. THAT is the point: discussion.<div class="im"><br>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Nah, I'll talk about it here but thanks.<br>
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If you really must, then I suppose you must. However, I'm curious as to why you feel this can't be resolved at the level of the individual hackerspaces through voting - I mean, it's not like this list is where the Mayor of the Hackerspaces will decree that you are absolutely correct and all hackerspaces must bow to your will in this matter.<br>
</blockquote>
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True but if people from hackerspaces considering this know that, for example, members of most other hackerspaces think it is very uncool and morally questionable to take this sort of money, perhaps it will factor into their discussions and decision making. If we just shut up and drop it, then those of us who do feel strongly on this issue miss out on an opportunity to affect how this plays out in the long run.<br>
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Hackerspaces aren't a tool for the military and military research except indirectly at best. Let's keep it that way.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
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Al</font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
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