[hackerspaces] status of this list

druid at stonedcoder.org druid at stonedcoder.org
Thu May 14 23:36:13 CEST 2009

You don't know you want to ignore them until after you've read the content

kill files are fine and all, but it doesn't solve the core issue, people 
spewing BS and not getting corrected politely except through people 
responding in kind


hackerY is 16, and has spent the last 4 years learning to converse on IRC

he chose channels where lol dongs was considered a witty comment on life

hackerY is highly intelligent, and has a lot to contribute to listX

upon joining listX, he responds as he has always responded, intelligently 
but with lots of very inflamatory language hiding the nuggets of knowledge

individuals respond by either:

1) adding to kill file
2) mentally filing under "troll"
3) responding in kind

none of these serve to educate hackerY on what is wrong with his 
interpersonal interaction techniques, and minimzes the contrinution he can 
make, as he is ignored by many who may be the best suited to respond to 
his thoughts

now if the GROUP responds formally, saying "you are an instigator, based 
on this this and this", hackerY will not assume as he has in the past that 
the person criticizing him is just responding in kind, because the 
language will indicate the criticism has been well thought out.

After being removed from said list with a detailed list of their mistakes, 
hopefully the individual will grow from their experience.

When a small child is acting up, you ignore it so that the child does not 
receive the reward of your attention.

When an older child acts up, they must be punished, and it must be made 
clear "you are not being punished out of spite, but out of a desire for 
you to correct your behaviour, and act within social norms proscribed to 
by the majority"

When an adult violates social norms, the severity of the infraction, 
damage done, etc... must be analyzed, and an appropriate reaction made

The goal with any self correction of a group is two fold:

1) assist the individual causing the issue in finding new ways of 
expressing themselves that do not cause damage

2) identify why the individuals actions are considered damaging, and 
either change the group mindset to allow said action, or formalize the 
group response temporarily to determine efficity of said response in light 
of the groups goals

So, a couple direct action items emerge:

1) define goals (I suggest assisting hackerspaces in flourishing, and 
advancing the hacker ethic of free access to information for all)
2) define potentially damaging actions (name calling, self agrandizement, 
hijacking the concept of hacker spaces for personal gain)
3) define responses to damaging actions (see below)

there are a lot of assumptions here, and I expect someone else to pick 
this up and flesh it out to a new degree of polish.


That's my presentation in 2004 on this exact topic, I honestly never 
expected to find a place to apply it so directly...

and yes, I was totally high when I gave that talk ;)


On Thu, 14 May 2009, Eric Michaud wrote:

> Towo that comes down very much to human nature.
> -E.
> ------Original Message------
> From: Tobias Wolter
> Sender: discuss-bounces+eric=hackerspaces.org at lists.hackerspaces.org
> To: discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> ReplyTo: Hackerspaces General Discussion List
> Sent: May 14, 2009 16:15
> Subject: Re: [hackerspaces] status of this list
> On Thu, 2009-05-14 at 17:03 -0400, druid at stonedcoder.org wrote:
>> 4) the majority agree that there are sometimes threads that are for some
>> reason worth filtering from the group discussion
> I still don't see why people can't just ignore senders or threads.
> -towo
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