[hackerspaces] Kids and Hackerspaces

[Aldert Hazenberg]

I must say that somehow I see the us-centric-legal-focus
always/often stifling any discussion/argument/activity.

But then again I do not have kids and in this instance
the legal focus seems te be very much justified...

Aldert.


On May 11, 2009, at 10:08 PM, Matt Joyce wrote:

> Here's the list of concerns we at NYCR voiced during one of our  
> longest internal meetings ever.
>
> We had a HUGE debate that lasted probably close to two hours ( or at  
> least it felt that way ) ultimately we decided to shelve the issue  
> for six months and seek some real legal advice on the issue.  In the  
> interim no kids allowed.  One 13 year old kid Jonas actually emailed  
> the contact list several times to discuss his desire to be allowed  
> in the space and how he thought it was unfair he was being banned  
> through no fault of his own.  Hard to argue with him.
>
> 1.  There's a difference between a members kids... and a non members  
> kids.
>
> 2.  What happens in the horrific likelihood a kid gets injured?
>
> 3.  Our space is in no way child proofed.  In fact it's pretty  
> unsafe even for adults if you don't know to not touch stuff you  
> don't understand.
>
> 4.  Re-engineering the space to be child safe in and of itself is a  
> huge effort for us at this point.
>
> 5.  What we've come to realize in public events is that we can't  
> trust parents to mind their kids.  Sometimes the parents are there  
> to geek out and their kids are just running around putting  
> themselves in jeopardy.
>
> 6.  Even with disclaimers and signed away rights to sue us... if a  
> child is injured, we WILL get sued.  And, we WILL lose.  Because  
> that's what functionally happens when a kid is injured.
>
> 7.  We don't currently have events that are geared towards kids.
>
> Some of the possible solutions that have been proposed...
>
> 1.  Make use of alternative venues such as the public library.  Host  
> children geared events through them.
>
> 2.  Make use of umbrella organizations... like sponsoring a first  
> team.  If a kid is injured... first will get sued and has the money  
> and size to handle that sort of thing.
>
> 3.  Talk to a lawyer.
>
> Love to hear what else you guys have to say.
>
>  - Matt
>
> On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 3:58 PM, Dave Null <noid23 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 12:47 PM, Aldert Hazenberg <aldert at rotz.org>  
> wrote:
> >
> > On May 11, 2009, at 9:45 PM, 3ric Johanson wrote:
> >
> >> A topic which I would love to raise at some point in the near  
> future
> >> - -
> >> 'children in hackerspaces'.
> >
> > Do not eat them.
> >
> > Aldert.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Aldert J.B.P. Hazenberg
> > Email   : aldert at rotz.org
> > Phone   : voip/skype on request
> > IM      : several on request
> >
> > The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds  
> new
> > discoveries, is not "Eureka!" but "That's funny..."
> >
> >     -- Isaac Asimov (1920-1992)
> >
> > The fundamental problems in IT security are no longer about  
> technology.
> >
> >     -- Bruce Schneier
> >
>
> Yes, don't eat them. They have small bones and that makes them hard  
> to clean.
>
> In the case of our space, one of our members, and several of our
> friends have kids. The basic things parents need to explain to their
> kids before coming over is something they should already be doing,
> teach their kids not to touch things without permission and that
> there's..um..certain words that grown ups can use that kids can't.
>
> We keep the hand tools locked up for security reasons already and that
> goes a long way from enabling little Jimmy from getting his hands on a
> sawzall. He also knows not to climb on things or unplug anything, no
> matter how brightly colored the cable is.
>
> When there are kids around we do our best to keep things PG rated as  
> well.
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
> _______________________________________________
> Discuss mailing list
> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss



Aldert.

-- 

Aldert J.B.P. Hazenberg
Email	: aldert at rotz.org
Phone	: voip/skype on request
IM	: several on request

The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new  
discoveries, is not "Eureka!" but "That's funny..."

     -- Isaac Asimov (1920-1992)

The fundamental problems in IT security are no longer about technology.

     -- Bruce Schneier