[hackerspaces] US hackerspaces - corporation formation and 501(c)3 status

[friday demola]

hey i don't think this message suppose to get to me.

On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 8:48 PM, dosman <dosman at packetsniffers.org> wrote:

> Thanks everyone for responding. Nicolle, I believe we met briefly at
> Notacon via Eric. We do intend to consult a local lawyer, but from
> what it sounds like we should do that before doing much else. It also
> sounds like the legalzoom "instant corporation" could be useful, but
> only if you already know what you are getting into or else it could be
> a double edged sword. We will certainly be working with other non-
> profits in our area to get help too. We also understand that the
> bylaws/articles of incorporation need to be ironed out with specifics
> met to appease the IRS beast.
>
> I am still interested in others experiences with the 501(c)3 paperwork
> since that is federal and a common process regardless of the state.
> I'm not looking for legally binding advice, just curious what others
> experiences have been regarding to "hackers get tax-exempt status " -
> what the IRS liked or didn't like about your organization - with
> intent for others to avoid the potholes you drove through.
>
> Thanks,
> -dosman
>
>
> On May 28, 2009, at 1:46 PM, nicolle wrote:
>
> > Beth, dr.kaos is correct...i am the lawyer for Pumping Station: One,
> > and
> > i am giving a talk at Defcon about the legal concerns of starting a
> > hackerspace.  i don't intend for the talk (or anything i say on this
> > list, for that matter...) to substitute for consulting an
> > attorney...but
> > it's extremely helpful to know what you're getting into, and extremely
> > helpful to be able to ask the right questions and be familiar with the
> > issues, especially if you're discussing your situation with a lawyer
> > who
> > may not be familiar with what hackerspaces entail.
> >
> > i definitely echo the thought that it's a good idea to talk to a real,
> > live lawyer about legal concerns.  corporate formation is mostly
> > straightforward...but the key word there, i think, is mostly.  each
> > state has its own requirements for incorporating, and then there is
> > certain information that needs to be in the articles of incorporation
> > and the bylaws to lay the groundwork for 501(c)(3), if you're planning
> > to go that route.
> >
> > the need to talk to an attorney goes beyond corporate formation,
> > though,
> > because that's not the only legal issue that's going to pop up.
> > you're
> > going to have to deal with zoning and lease negotiation.  you're going
> > to have to deal with liability issues for members and guests.  legally
> > advising a single hackerspace is obviously not a full-time job, but
> > differing legal issues arise frequently enough that it's advisable to
> > talk to an attorney to make sure your ducks are in a row.  a lot of
> > cities do have resources to turn to...pro bono attorneys for the arts,
> > and organizations and clinics that assist nonprofits for free.  search
> > online, or ask the local bar association to point you in the right
> > direction.
> >
> > nicolle
> >
> >
> >
> > beth wrote:
> >> I agree with jur1st.
> >>
> >> If you don't have time to find the same info on the web, these kits
> >> may be a good idea, but they just get you started and don't answer
> >> any
> >> questions.
> >>
> >> Finding a local lawyers for the arts type group offering a clinic
> >> is a
> >> good idea, check with your local pro-bono org or bar assoc. too.
> >>
> >> Also, simply finding a local non-profit with a mission that is like
> >> yours and asking them how they set up their organization/board and
> >> bylaws etc and what issues they ran into can be invaluable. Here in
> >> Atlanta, we found an arts organization that was set up specifically
> >> to
> >> provide old printing presses and offered classes on their use. Their
> >> mission was educational and creative. Alot of what they are doing
> >> could be translated to what we are doing (providing access to
> >> technology and education on how to use it).
> >>
> >> Look at your area non-profits and ask them if they have someone who
> >> can spend some time via email/phone/inperson telling you how they got
> >> their 501c3 and how they overcame challenges and even what their
> >> bylaws say. Most will be happy to lend a hand and you may find fast
> >> friends and great resources too.
> >>
> >> Filing these documents costs alot of money even without the lawyers,
> >> so you don't want to have to do it twice, or be denied status. It's
> >> worth a workshop/clinic fee.
> >>
> >> (Also, dr.kaos, my better half, says there is a lawyer from Pumping
> >> Station One in Chicago giving  a talk on this at defcon, go see it or
> >> get the recording after.)
> >>
> >> Beth
> >>
> >> On May 28, 2009, at 11:55 AM, jur1st wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> I recall a commercial for a national tax prep firm which made an
> >>> excellent point about products like Turbo Tax. When you get audited,
> >>> who are you going to ask for assistance?  The software box?
> >>>
> >>> Outfits like the ones you mention come with forms...that's it. No
> >>> way
> >>> to talk through the issues which you bring up later in your
> >>> message...no opportunity to discuss other legal issues or risk
> >>> management with an actual attorney.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This culture is very DIY based...but legal and financial issues are
> >>> best handled by those that have backgrounds in law, tax, accounting
> >>> etc.
> >>>
> >>> You may want to consult with a local or regional law school to see
> >>> if
> >>> they have clinics or professors who could help pro-bono.
> >>>
> >>> -jur1st
>
>
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