[foodhackingbase] Introduction and Question

Sat Jan 17 15:40:33 CET 2015

Hi Kai and all,
well quite few things to comment, I will try tomorrow in detail today 
just shortly.

If you use koji (Aspergillus orizae) to ferment rice to get fermentable 
sugars you should increase the temperature too around 30C so the enzymes 
from the fungal starter can easily break the starch molucules. I have 
seen in Japan this to be used to make "amazake"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazake

(Korean version is called "shindari" but made from nuruk starter which 
is mixed yeast/fungal and bacterial culture, wild origin), which was 
heated to the temperature mentioned and mixed every 30 min or so for 
just few hours, it was incredibly quick, within one evening we had 
really nice sweet rice beverage to drink.

Concerning doenjang you use airborn microbes so it is wild fermentation, 
started in Korea during winter time - December possibly January, taking 
at least half year for a decent doenjang. From what I know miso is 
started solely by koji (Aspergilus orizae) and I was under the 
impression that it is the begining and end of the spectrum of cultures 
involved but I may be wrong. If there are another cultures in the game 
later on I would be bit worried about the profile because the cultires 
at the beginning of the fermentation and at the end may differ 
significantly in their spectrum. I for example know that if you want to 
to do the Korean rice beer called makgeolli (as mentioned before) you 
should use the fresh new nuruk culture (again wild mix origin) rather 
than using last batch of makgeolli - most likely due to the amount of 
lactic/vinagre bacteria which are present in the later on phazes of 
makgeolli fermentation and which would turn the ferment sour/acidic (at 
least I do believe based on experience that more lactic bacteria are in 
the game later on during the brewing process).

Anyway I will try to answer more things later on tomorrow, but mind me, 
it is the dark beer brewing day for me so we will see how much do I 
manage ...

Sincerely from Jeju,

Frantisek

On 2015-01-17 16:46, Kai Du wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> @Frantisek: Makgeolli I didn´t know yet. That is very interesting. I
> know a chinese dish, which uses cooked glutinous rice and aspergillus
> orizae to make a sweet, slightly alkoholic dessert. I tried to make
> rice wine with the dried ferment I got from a chinese friend, but
> wasn´t happy with the result. So I really loke forward reading about
> those recipes. I bought some dark and light miso paste. Can I use
> those as a starting agent to produce doenjang?
> 
> The links for the soy sauce experiment are these:
> http://hobbykoch-podcast.de/sojasose-selbst-herstellen-1-teil/
> http://hobbykoch-podcast.de/sojasose-selbst-herstellen-2-teil/
> http://hobbykoch-podcast.de/sojasose-selbst-herstellen-3-teil/
> http://hobbykoch-podcast.de/sojasose-selbst-herstellen-4-teil/
> http://hobbykoch-podcast.de/sojasose-selbst-herstellen-v/
> 
> A joghurt making tutorial (it´s much easier done in summer):
> http://hobbykoch-podcast.de/joghurt-selbst-herstellen/
> 
> Here is my youtube video abaout kimchi making:
> http://hobbykoch-podcast.de/kimchi/
> 
> my recent experiment of making Sauerkraut without a traditional clay
> pot didn´t work out.
> 
> Best wishes,
> Kai
> 
> Am 17.01.2015 um 05:43 schrieb Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck:
>> Hi to all,
>> I like the idea that you used wild fermentation for your soysauce. 
>> Could you share the links to your blog posts in Germany? Most of us 
>> can go through that directly with the help of translation tools I 
>> believe (the more lucky ones even without :-)). We should create some 
>> page on our wikies, maybe temporarily something under "temporary" 
>> section like "soysause" fermentation would be handy?
>> 
>> https://foodhackingbase.org/wiki/Temporary
>> 
>> I hope to start Korean style soybean ferment called 된장 (doenjang)
>> 
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doenjang
>> 
>> soon, one part of the ferment as already mentioned is "doenjang" which 
>> is the soybean paste, second part, the liquid fraction is "ganjang", 
>> Korean style soy souce. The doenjang, I would say is one of the three 
>> essential Korean ferments, together with vegetable ferments called 
>> kimchies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimchi) and rice ferments 
>> called makgeollies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makgeolli). Note all 
>> of these ferments have many variations based on style of fermentation, 
>> ingredients, season and location.
>> 
>> For me beer and soybean ferments are again topic for this year, I hope 
>> to add beekeeping which translates as good and reasonably prices 
>> source of honey - I would like to take just around 30% of the bees 
>> harvest so more biodynamic style so they can happily prosper.
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> 
>> Frantisek
>> 
>> 
>> On 2015-01-16 22:39, Kai Du wrote:
>>> I now tried some kombucha straight from the jar and it is really
>>> delicous! I harvested the rest and mixed the kombucha with some honey
>>> to receive a fizzy drink, which I guess I prefer.
>>> 
>>> I tried to make my own soy sauce some time ago and I wondered, if
>>> anybody would be interested. I wrote some blog articles about my
>>> experiment in German. I would shorten and translate it to English, if
>>> you like. It was a wild fermentation and the results I found quite
>>> interesting.
>>> 
>>> Am 16.01.2015 um 14:28 schrieb Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck:
>>>> I hope the tasting will go well. Do you like your drink rather fizzy 
>>>> or flat? If the second is the case avoid secondary fermentation in a 
>>>> cloes bottle at room temperature and after the harvest move the brew 
>>>> directly in the bottle to the fridge and let to age for week or so - 
>>>> well I like it aged if not drink stright away!
>>>> 
>>>> Talk to you soon,
>>>> 
>>>> FAA
>>>> 
>>>> On 2015-01-16 00:15, Kai Du wrote:
>>>>> Hi Frantisek,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I already met Alex. I live 50km south from Hamburg. Alex gave me a
>>>>> SCOBY sample and the instructions. The Kombucha seems to develop
>>>>> nicely, I didn´t taste it yet, though.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>> Kai
>>>>> 
>>>>> Am 15.01.2015 um 13:58 schrieb Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck:
>>>>>> Hi Kai,
>>>>>> I wonder where are you based? The kefir grains and kombucha SCOBY 
>>>>>> can be shipped quite for distance if necessary, I generally use a 
>>>>>> 500 ml plastic bottle with the culture in it with bit of growing 
>>>>>> medium/brew. Alex is in Germany, I'm in South Korea, some people 
>>>>>> in Holland etc. There is variety of networks which you can find 
>>>>>> online providing cultures if you cover postage in case you are 
>>>>>> somewhere far away ...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Anyway talk to you soon and I hope we will find a solution for you 
>>>>>> :-) Are you on Facebook? We discuss things there too and hopefully 
>>>>>> we will found a online forum soon but we need to focus on that.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Frantisek
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2015-01-07 19:35, Kai Du wrote:
>>>>>>> Hallo Everyone,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I´m new to the mailing list and I would like to introduce myself
>>>>>>> briefly: My Name is Kai Du and I love cooking and try new recipes 
>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>> my life. I produce the "Hobbykoch Podcast" and "Trick17 Podcast" 
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> wich are about food and lifehacking.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sadly I missed the chance to meet you in Hamburg. Maybe I´ll come 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> the next c3.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There are descriptions for producing Kefir and Kombucha in the 
>>>>>>> wiki
>>>>>>> and I wondered, if I could get a sample of starting cultures from 
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>> to try this myself. I already sucessfully tried making Kimchi, 
>>>>>>> Sake
>>>>>>> and my own soy sauce.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Greetings,
>>>>>>> Kai
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> foodhackingbase mailing list
>>>>>>> foodhackingbase at lists.hackerspaces.org
>>>>>>> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/foodhackingbase
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 

-- 
Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck

biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker

http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org

"There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi

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