[hackerspaces] In defense of Noisebridge (even if I was never there!)

Thu Jul 3 20:23:32 CEST 2014

The lord bunny budha smiles upon you and showers you in alfalfa.

On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 2:22 PM, Colin Keigher <general at keyboardcowboy.ca>
wrote:

> It's more of a church with beer.
>
>
> On 03/07/2014 11:21, Joe Bowser wrote:
>
>> We're a "movement"?
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Colin Keigher
>> <general at keyboardcowboy.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> Please stop calling it "civic hacking". It's called "activism" and it
>>> has no
>>> business in the hackerspace movement.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 03/07/2014 11:15, Randall G. Arnold wrote:
>>>
>>> So Colin, are you then philosophically opposed to civic hacking?  Do you
>>> see
>>> it as out of scope for a maker/hacker space?  If so, do you have an
>>> alternative in mind for an organizing body?  Truly curious.
>>>
>>> Randy
>>>
>>>
>>> On July 3, 2014 at 1:09 PM Colin Keigher <general at keyboardcowboy.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think that allowing a space to call itself a "hackerspace" while
>>> trying to
>>> become something more poisons the movement for everyone else and likely
>>> ruins it.
>>>
>>> Groups like IndyMedia failed because of their insistence on promoting a
>>> viewpoint that was extreme. This viewpoint ended up coming into play
>>> because
>>> of individuals who got involved who had certain attitudes. It is these
>>> same
>>> types of individuals who contributed to IMCs being looked down upon.
>>> Tragedy
>>> of the commons really played a role in making IndyMedia irrelevant.
>>>
>>> This same plague that took down many of the IMCs is the same plague that
>>> can
>>> take over a hackerspace. This is the plague you want to avoid if you
>>> want to
>>> make sure that your space does not end up trying to become something it
>>> has
>>> no business becoming. Much of the problems that people want to tackle
>>> that
>>> spaces have no business being a part of should be addressed in the public
>>> sphere through government and political activism. A hackerspace should
>>> only
>>> be there to provide tools to assist, not solutions.
>>>
>>> Asking for diversity in hackerspaces as a whole is going to lead to
>>> hackerspaces being looked down upon and will lead to Noisebridge-esque
>>> jokes
>>> being hackerspace-esque instead.
>>>
>>> - Colin
>>>
>>> On 03/07/2014 10:52, matt wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd think this strikes to the heart of defining the mission of a space.
>>>  At
>>> NYC Resistor we went with Learn, Make, Share... but obviously we needed
>>> to
>>> limit some other aspects of what we might accomplish in order to protect
>>> the
>>> core mission.
>>>
>>> And that core mission really is the gooey center of our community.  It's
>>> something we're all on board with.
>>> So I think the question of politically activism in hackerspaces strikes
>>> to
>>> the very core of a hackerspace as a community.  By being political you've
>>> become unwelcoming to those who might disagree with your views, and your
>>> goals.  You've focused more on building the community you want to be a
>>> part
>>> of.
>>> I'd say that's probably a good thing for those who are part of that
>>> community and make that community a healthy one.
>>>
>>> That being said, I think some communities are obviously toxic... such as
>>> what remains of Occupy.  And frankly, I'd say the same of Indymedia.
>>>  It's
>>> interesting as it drives to the core of how do you cultivate and how do
>>> you
>>> define the metric of success for a healthy community?
>>> At the same time there is the dichotomy of hackerspace as a public
>>> utility
>>> rather than as a community.  My library is not a place I go to enjoy the
>>> company of my peers.  It's a place I go to get access to shared
>>> knowledge in
>>> the form of books.  And that's great.
>>> Some spaces may want to be ran as a public utility.  I think the
>>> noisebridge
>>> model drove that direction.  But some of the members never could let go
>>> of
>>> the idea of being a community and enjoying the benefits of that trust
>>> relationship.  They couldn't reconcile the divide between hackerspace as
>>> a
>>> public utility and hackerspace as a community.
>>>
>>> And I think at the core of this discussion is the question of whether or
>>> not
>>> these two views are irreconcilable.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 1:46 PM, Randall G. Arnold
>>> <randall.arnold at texrat.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Texas politics are very polarized these days and get ugly quick, so we've
>>> tried to get our community to leave that aspect of their lives at home.
>>> There's a strong tea party undercurrent to our membership though, and it
>>> is
>>> what it is.  So far people have been respectful enough to let the
>>> provocative comments be, and we haven't had an issue.  Yet.
>>>
>>> That said, I'm not sure how that question came out of what I posted,
>>> which
>>> was apolitical.  I do get that societal issues CAN get political, but
>>> we've
>>> put a lot of effort into avoiding the polarizing aspects.  Things like
>>> clean
>>> air and water aren't really political issues-- they're politicized by
>>> people
>>> with non-maker agendas.  Restoring horned lizards cuts across all
>>> demographics here-- everyone wants them brought back.  So in cases like
>>> these, it's easy to pull together people of diverse political leanings.
>>>  We
>>> put our focus on the COMMON goals.
>>>
>>> Randy
>>> Tarrant Makers
>>>
>>>
>>> On July 3, 2014 at 12:32 PM Al Billings < albill at openbuddha.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Is your space welcoming to people, regardless of personal politics or do
>>> you
>>> have to be a specific kind of lefty/socialist/anarchist/hippy/whatever
>>> in
>>> order to be welcome?
>>>
>>> I say this as a socialist but I don’t want there to be a political litmus
>>> test on whether people are welcome in a space. My space has members who,
>>> quietly on occasion, bitch about Obama and his “agenda” with an eye roll
>>> from some other members. We have a communist or two and probably more
>>> than a
>>> few anarchists. Generally, I know someone for a year or more before I
>>> even
>>> realize their personal politics. Why? Because we’re there to hack, not to
>>> form a political party.
>>>
>>> There are definitely spaces where this isn’t the case. If you aren’t on
>>> board with the specific local politics (which are usually a certain
>>> specific
>>> form of left leaning anarchism), you are shunned pretty heavily and
>>> “don’t
>>> fit in.” I’d rather have a Republican that wants to build a project from
>>> salvaged computers than an anarchist that just wants to hang out in the
>>> kitchen “food hacking.”
>>>
>>> Al
>>>
>>> On Jul 3, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Randall G. Arnold <
>>> randall.arnold at texrat.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I disagree when you frame that as an absolute.  Sure, there CAN be
>>> negative
>>> outcomes when a maker/hacker space or organization has fixing societal
>>> problems as a goal, but it ain't necessarily so.  It all comes down to
>>> defining the goal(s), having people to support them and for members with
>>> different goals to be respectful of each other and not get in each
>>> other's
>>> way.
>>>
>>> If as a makerspace member I put together a special interest group that
>>> builds remote wildlife monitoring stations for helping horned lizard
>>> conservation, and I don't disrupt anyone else in the process, then I'm
>>> positively hacking the planet and no one gets hurt.  Win-win.
>>>
>>>
>>> Al Billings
>>> albill at openbuddha.com
>>> http://makehacklearn.org
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Randall (Randy) Arnold
>>> Developer and Enthusiast Advocate
>>> http://texrat.net
>>> +18177396806
>>>
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