<div dir="ltr">The lord bunny budha smiles upon you and showers you in alfalfa.<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 2:22 PM, Colin Keigher <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:general@keyboardcowboy.ca" target="_blank">general@keyboardcowboy.ca</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">It's more of a church with beer.<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On 03/07/2014 11:21, Joe Bowser wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
We're a "movement"?<br>
<br>
On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Colin Keigher<br>
<<a href="mailto:general@keyboardcowboy.ca" target="_blank">general@keyboardcowboy.ca</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Please stop calling it "civic hacking". It's called "activism" and it has no<br>
business in the hackerspace movement.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 03/07/2014 11:15, Randall G. Arnold wrote:<br>
<br>
So Colin, are you then philosophically opposed to civic hacking? Do you see<br>
it as out of scope for a maker/hacker space? If so, do you have an<br>
alternative in mind for an organizing body? Truly curious.<br>
<br>
Randy<br>
<br>
<br>
On July 3, 2014 at 1:09 PM Colin Keigher <<a href="mailto:general@keyboardcowboy.ca" target="_blank">general@keyboardcowboy.ca</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
I think that allowing a space to call itself a "hackerspace" while trying to<br>
become something more poisons the movement for everyone else and likely<br>
ruins it.<br>
<br>
Groups like IndyMedia failed because of their insistence on promoting a<br>
viewpoint that was extreme. This viewpoint ended up coming into play because<br>
of individuals who got involved who had certain attitudes. It is these same<br>
types of individuals who contributed to IMCs being looked down upon. Tragedy<br>
of the commons really played a role in making IndyMedia irrelevant.<br>
<br>
This same plague that took down many of the IMCs is the same plague that can<br>
take over a hackerspace. This is the plague you want to avoid if you want to<br>
make sure that your space does not end up trying to become something it has<br>
no business becoming. Much of the problems that people want to tackle that<br>
spaces have no business being a part of should be addressed in the public<br>
sphere through government and political activism. A hackerspace should only<br>
be there to provide tools to assist, not solutions.<br>
<br>
Asking for diversity in hackerspaces as a whole is going to lead to<br>
hackerspaces being looked down upon and will lead to Noisebridge-esque jokes<br>
being hackerspace-esque instead.<br>
<br>
- Colin<br>
<br>
On 03/07/2014 10:52, matt wrote:<br>
<br>
I'd think this strikes to the heart of defining the mission of a space. At<br>
NYC Resistor we went with Learn, Make, Share... but obviously we needed to<br>
limit some other aspects of what we might accomplish in order to protect the<br>
core mission.<br>
<br>
And that core mission really is the gooey center of our community. It's<br>
something we're all on board with.<br>
So I think the question of politically activism in hackerspaces strikes to<br>
the very core of a hackerspace as a community. By being political you've<br>
become unwelcoming to those who might disagree with your views, and your<br>
goals. You've focused more on building the community you want to be a part<br>
of.<br>
I'd say that's probably a good thing for those who are part of that<br>
community and make that community a healthy one.<br>
<br>
That being said, I think some communities are obviously toxic... such as<br>
what remains of Occupy. And frankly, I'd say the same of Indymedia. It's<br>
interesting as it drives to the core of how do you cultivate and how do you<br>
define the metric of success for a healthy community?<br>
At the same time there is the dichotomy of hackerspace as a public utility<br>
rather than as a community. My library is not a place I go to enjoy the<br>
company of my peers. It's a place I go to get access to shared knowledge in<br>
the form of books. And that's great.<br>
Some spaces may want to be ran as a public utility. I think the noisebridge<br>
model drove that direction. But some of the members never could let go of<br>
the idea of being a community and enjoying the benefits of that trust<br>
relationship. They couldn't reconcile the divide between hackerspace as a<br>
public utility and hackerspace as a community.<br>
<br>
And I think at the core of this discussion is the question of whether or not<br>
these two views are irreconcilable.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 1:46 PM, Randall G. Arnold<br>
<<a href="mailto:randall.arnold@texrat.net" target="_blank">randall.arnold@texrat.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Texas politics are very polarized these days and get ugly quick, so we've<br>
tried to get our community to leave that aspect of their lives at home.<br>
There's a strong tea party undercurrent to our membership though, and it is<br>
what it is. So far people have been respectful enough to let the<br>
provocative comments be, and we haven't had an issue. Yet.<br>
<br>
That said, I'm not sure how that question came out of what I posted, which<br>
was apolitical. I do get that societal issues CAN get political, but we've<br>
put a lot of effort into avoiding the polarizing aspects. Things like clean<br>
air and water aren't really political issues-- they're politicized by people<br>
with non-maker agendas. Restoring horned lizards cuts across all<br>
demographics here-- everyone wants them brought back. So in cases like<br>
these, it's easy to pull together people of diverse political leanings. We<br>
put our focus on the COMMON goals.<br>
<br>
Randy<br>
Tarrant Makers<br>
<br>
<br>
On July 3, 2014 at 12:32 PM Al Billings < <a href="mailto:albill@openbuddha.com" target="_blank">albill@openbuddha.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Is your space welcoming to people, regardless of personal politics or do you<br>
have to be a specific kind of lefty/socialist/anarchist/<u></u>hippy/whatever in<br>
order to be welcome?<br>
<br>
I say this as a socialist but I don’t want there to be a political litmus<br>
test on whether people are welcome in a space. My space has members who,<br>
quietly on occasion, bitch about Obama and his “agenda” with an eye roll<br>
from some other members. We have a communist or two and probably more than a<br>
few anarchists. Generally, I know someone for a year or more before I even<br>
realize their personal politics. Why? Because we’re there to hack, not to<br>
form a political party.<br>
<br>
There are definitely spaces where this isn’t the case. If you aren’t on<br>
board with the specific local politics (which are usually a certain specific<br>
form of left leaning anarchism), you are shunned pretty heavily and “don’t<br>
fit in.” I’d rather have a Republican that wants to build a project from<br>
salvaged computers than an anarchist that just wants to hang out in the<br>
kitchen “food hacking.”<br>
<br>
Al<br>
<br>
On Jul 3, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Randall G. Arnold < <a href="mailto:randall.arnold@texrat.net" target="_blank">randall.arnold@texrat.net</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
I disagree when you frame that as an absolute. Sure, there CAN be negative<br>
outcomes when a maker/hacker space or organization has fixing societal<br>
problems as a goal, but it ain't necessarily so. It all comes down to<br>
defining the goal(s), having people to support them and for members with<br>
different goals to be respectful of each other and not get in each other's<br>
way.<br>
<br>
If as a makerspace member I put together a special interest group that<br>
builds remote wildlife monitoring stations for helping horned lizard<br>
conservation, and I don't disrupt anyone else in the process, then I'm<br>
positively hacking the planet and no one gets hurt. Win-win.<br>
<br>
<br>
Al Billings<br>
<a href="mailto:albill@openbuddha.com" target="_blank">albill@openbuddha.com</a><br>
<a href="http://makehacklearn.org" target="_blank">http://makehacklearn.org</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Randall (Randy) Arnold<br>
Developer and Enthusiast Advocate<br>
<a href="http://texrat.net" target="_blank">http://texrat.net</a><br>
<a href="tel:%2B18177396806" value="+18177396806" target="_blank">+18177396806</a><br>
<br>
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