[sudoroom] Ferro Fluids Sudo Project group

Tracy Jacobs kinetical at comcast.net
Thu Jul 19 02:28:53 CEST 2012


Ebay does seem to have the best price 15.00 + 12.00 shipping.  I can  
get it.  I'll let you know when it arrives.  So, not tonight, it's  
better to wait for that. I'll order it now.

Tracy
On Jul 18, 2012, at 5:25 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer wrote:

> You would still need some oleic acid for the FeCl recipe as well,  
> right? That seems to be our main bottleneck right now...
>
> I could swing by Sudoroom this evening, but I'm still in Livermore  
> right now. And if we don't have any oleic acid it'd be rather  
> pointless...
>
> Patrik
>
> On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Tracy Jacobs  
> <kinetical at comcast.net> wrote:
> Hey Patrick,
>
> Are you ready to do some ferro fluid stuff this evening?  If so, we  
> should meet before dark and work outside probably.  Matt told me  
> there is an alley behind the building we could probably mix up   
> messy toxic stuff in.  I am going to try my recipe with the ferric  
> chloride probably this weekend at home in my yard.  It just seems  
> like I need to set up a controlled environment outside to do that.   
> But if anybody wants to come help me they can!  I'll come by Sudo  
> room tonight if you are ready to start on your recipe? Let me know.
>
> Tracy
>
> On Jul 18, 2012, at 12:12 AM, Patrik D'haeseleer wrote:
>
>> Yeah, very nice one. It kinda looks like they just used one of  
>> those conical step drill bits (aka unibit) with an electromagnet  
>> underneath. The shape of steel drill bit bends the magnetic field  
>> lines, so the magnetic field is actually a bit stronger on the  
>> sharp edges of the drill bit. And as you crank up the  
>> electromagnet, the ferrofluid gets pulled up to those areas with  
>> the highest field strength.
>>
>> I can kinda understand why it's doing what it's doing, but being  
>> able to predict how it's going to behave is a whole different  
>> matter...
>>
>> Patrik
>>
>> PS: if you want to see some entirely incomprehensible behavior, we  
>> should try mixing some ferrofluid with oobleck (corn starch + water  
>> non-Newtonian fluid) on a vibrating plate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp1wUodQgqQ
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 11:18 PM, Matthew Senate <mattsenate at gmail.com 
>> > wrote:
>> Wow, I knew I'd seen something like that before, friend of friends'  
>> music video:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zemkodUsPEw
>>
>> // Matt
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 10:59 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer <patrikd at gmail.com 
>> > wrote:
>> I've seen that FeCl3 based recipe in a few other places. This may  
>> be the original source: http://www.sci-spot.com/Chemistry/liqimag.htm
>>
>> You definitely don't need all the fancy lab equipment, just some  
>> measuring cups and an old pot to boil the stuff in. You do need to  
>> boil off a lot of ammonia - probably not something you'd want to do  
>> indoors.
>>
>> Electromagnets are everywhere - any electrical motor has  
>> electromagnets inside, and you can always wind one yourself with  
>> some copper wire around an iron core, like a nail. I've got some  
>> small DC motors in the Sudoroom locker at TechLiminal that we can  
>> scavenge for small magnets and electromagnets.
>>
>> Patrik
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 9:57 PM, Tracy Jacobs  
>> <kinetical at comcast.net> wrote:
>> http://www.gdiy.com/projects/liquid-magnets-ferrofluid/index.php
>>
>> This looks like a good recipe.  It uses steel wool for the metal.   
>> I do have some Ferric Chloride from etching pcbs in my garage.  I  
>> can get kerosene and ammonia, and you found a source for Oleic  
>> Acid.  It doesn't sound like we would need very much 10ml.
>>
>> Do you have some of the lab equipment it calls for?
>>
>> Are you working from a  recipe?  Do you want to try both?
>>
>> I have a dogwalking business and a full schedule tomorrow., so I  
>> don't know that I'll be ready by tomorrow. I won't have a chance to  
>> run to Berkeley and get Oleic acid anyway.  Maybe Friday or the  
>> weekend would be better.   I think I have a couple old hard drives  
>> if I can find them in this mess.  They are supposed to have good  
>> magnets.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUz1ZI-w6LQ&feature=BFa&list=PLD113CD853249B687
>>
>> How could they do this do you think?  All the movement is  
>> interesting to be sure. They are talking about using fluxes too,  
>> but it is not clear to me.  Do you know what they are talking  
>> about?  It almost looks like they pump the fluid up from the center.
>>
>>  Do you have a link for the electromagnets you are talking about or  
>> did you make them?  I can't wait to try this!
>>
>> Thanks for your help.  Let's talk tomorrow, I don't get home till  
>> about 5.
>>
>> Tracy
>>
>> On Jul 17, 2012, at 1:38 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer wrote:
>>
>>> I was thinking that some non-magnetic material would make it  
>>> easier to manipulate the overall magnetic field using some low- 
>>> powered electromagnets. Hence Alu foil instead of cast iron.
>>>
>>> Actually, we could just start from a cheap plastic skull ($17.27  
>>> on Amazon, or dig through your Halloween closet), and implant some  
>>> magnets to get the ferrofluid to stick.
>>>
>>> Patrik
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 17, 2012 at 9:24 AM, Tracy Jacobs  
>>> <kinetical at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> Patrick,
>>>
>>> I love your idea !  Cast iron would be better than foil to be  
>>> sure.  Maybe greenman would be a fitting subject.
>>>
>>> I'm ok with Wed or Fri, maybe Friday if I have to run around and  
>>> get supplies too.
>>>
>>> Tracy
>>>
>>> On Jul 17, 2012, at 1:12 AM, Patrik D'haeseleer wrote:
>>>
>>>> I could do Wednesday or Friday - prefer Wednesday. I can bring my  
>>>> small sample of cemmercial ferrofluid for comparison with the DIY  
>>>> versions.
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone have access to oleic acid to use as a surfactant?  
>>>> That should keep the ferrite particles from clumping together,  
>>>> and make for a much smoother ferrofluid. Supposed to be around 5%  
>>>> magnetite (3-15% by volume), 10% surfactant (6-30%), and 85% oil  
>>>> (55-91%).
>>>>
>>>> Someone on Instructables mentioned you can also get ferrite at a  
>>>> pottery supply store for $2-$5 a pound. Know anyone into pottery?  
>>>> Anyone want to check out Leslie Ceramic Supply, 1212 San Pablo in  
>>>> Berkeley, just North of Gilman?
>>>>
>>>> In terms of art pieces, I think it would be really cool to do an  
>>>> animated sculpture covered in ferrofluid, with electromagnets  
>>>> hidden inside so you can change the texture of the ferrofluid.  
>>>> The simplest version could just be a face molded out of aluminum  
>>>> foil, with small magnets embedded to get the ferrofluid to cover  
>>>> the surface. Then put some electromagnets behind the face, so you  
>>>> can change its expression by manipulating the ferrofluid.
>>>>
>>>> Patrik
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 10:11 PM, Tracy Jacobs <kinetical at comcast.net 
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for expressing interest in doing a Ferrofluid experiment  
>>>> together.  I'd love to make our project the centerpiece of our  
>>>> Art Murmur show.  Art Murmur is in two weeks.  I asked Jake to  
>>>> share his experiment during Art Murmur.  He made his in like a  
>>>> day, and it turned out really well.  He mixed MICR with cooking  
>>>> oil and put it between two slides with a magnetized paper clip.   
>>>> That was projected on a wall for a really interesting painterly  
>>>> effect.  Very small scale and inexpensive, too.
>>>>
>>>> So, we need Ferrofluid.   I know Patrick ordered some iron oxide,  
>>>> and he has sent us some good links.  There are different methods  
>>>> we can try for making the fluid ourselves, because it can be  
>>>> expensive to buy.  I want to try a couple different recipes.   
>>>> Patrick can you get back to me with your reccomendations for what  
>>>> we should try and what we still need to buy for that?
>>>>
>>>> I am interested in magnetizing a couple of iron sculptures that I  
>>>> made a long time ago.  From what I understand this involves  
>>>> wrapping them in coated copper wire and charging them.  If you  
>>>> find any interesting steel or iron objects, these would be good  
>>>> to play with.
>>>>
>>>> We also need magnets.  Powerful magnets can be taken from old  
>>>> hard drives, so if you have any old hard drives bring them.  I  
>>>> will bring tools. Or if you have any magnets, bring those.
>>>>
>>>> We should meet up soon.  Could you let me know your  
>>>> availability?   I have Weds night, Fri night, or the weekend  
>>>> anytime.
>>>>
>>>> Tracy
>>>>
>>>> www.funkyautomata.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jul 16, 2012, at 12:36 PM, Jehan Tremback wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wow, imagine making a batch with a 44 lb bag, using a gigantic  
>>>>> electromagnet, and creating the hugest ferrofluid sculpture  
>>>>> known to man. Might be messy if the power cut out though.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Jehan
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jul 16, 2012 at 9:12 AM, Anca | Tech Liminal <anca at techliminal.com 
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> The rust lady said she got all her supplies at Michael's - but  
>>>>> that they weren't well-labeled.  Look in the patina isle (yes,  
>>>>> there is a patina isle!)
>>>>>
>>>>> Anca.
>>>>>
>>>>> -=-=-=-=-
>>>>> Anca Mosoiu  | Tech Liminal
>>>>> anca at techliminal.com
>>>>> M: (510) 220-6660
>>>>> W: http://techliminal.com  | T: @techliminal | F: facebook.com/ 
>>>>> techliminal
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 12, 2012, at 6:14 PM, Patrik D'haeseleer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I got some ferrofluid from Inventables a while back - wasn't  
>>>>>> too expensive: $13.60 for a fluid ounce. Haven't tried mixing  
>>>>>> it with any water colors yet though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.inventables.com/technologies/magnetic-fluid
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also noticed that the person teaching the "Create Real Rust"  
>>>>>> class at Workshop Weekend had a jar of atomized iron powder  
>>>>>> that I was thinking would probably work fairly well to make  
>>>>>> ferrofluid. May be worth checking some art stores with a magnet  
>>>>>> - or just ask that teacher where she got hers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the Exploratorium or another similar booth had a nice  
>>>>>> ferrofluid demo at Maker Faire one or two years ago. Just a big  
>>>>>> glob of ferrofluid in a glass jar, and some powerful magnets  
>>>>>> that people could move by turning a wheel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Patrik
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PS: Doesn't quite classify as a ferro"fluid", but check out the  
>>>>>> video about this guy's work:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://jolanvanderwiel.nl/?p=272
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 12, 2012 at 5:32 PM, Tracy Jacobs <kinetical at comcast.net 
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> http://www.thecreatorsproject.com/blog/ferrofluids-go-next-level-technicolor-in-fabian-oefners-amazing-images
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Tracy Jacobs <kinetical at comcast.net>
>>>>>>> Date: July 12, 2012 5:29:10 PM PDT
>>>>>>> To: SUDOroom list <sudoroom at lists.hackerspaces.org>
>>>>>>> Subject: [sudoroom] Ferro Fluids?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was wondering if anyone would be interested in doing some  
>>>>>>> experimentation with Ferro fluids as a group project?  If we  
>>>>>>> get nice results we could put them in the box office next Art  
>>>>>>> Murmur.  I've been wanting to try that for a long time, and  
>>>>>>> there are some methods that are free or under ten dollars cheap.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.instructables.com/id/Make-your-own-ferrofluid-in-5-minutes/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A nicer example:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#!/photo.php? 
>>>>>>> fbid=503571739658618&set=a. 
>>>>>>> 133255743356888.23929.115384328477363&type=1&theater
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> sudoroom mailing list
>>>>>>> sudoroom at lists.hackerspaces.org
>>>>>>> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/sudoroom
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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