[SpaceProgram] Project Management, Starships, and the Failure of Modern Physics - YouTube

Tue Sep 25 02:08:37 CEST 2012

Seasteading has almost identical needs as spacesteading in theory it easyer
to develop. Perhaps it could be a stepwise goal. A lot of tech could cross
over.
 On Sun, Sep 23, 2012 at 9:29 AM, Jerry Isdale <jerry at mauimakers.com> wrote:

> There was an interesting talk at 100YSS on SeaSteading ... homesteaders
> going to sea... or under it.
>     http://lmgtfy.com/?q=seasteading
>
> Definitely an option to investigate.
>
> Jerry Isdale
> http://MauiMakers.com
> http://www.mauimakers.com/blog/thursday-public-meeting/
>
> On Sep 23, 2012, at 4:14 AM, ainut at hiwaay.net wrote:
>
> > It would not have to be a standalone unit.  It could be one of the
> underwater restaurants that we install an airlock in.
> >
> > Or we could just build one that way.  Part of it above the water or on
> land, and part underwater.  This type, however, would allow designers to be
> sloppy since the danger factor is much less than a pure underwater,
> standalone unit.
> >
> > David M.
> >
> >
> >
> > Quoting cole santos <cksantos85 at gmail.com>:
> >
> >> I think an underwater habitat would be a great project. If you can
> figure a
> >> way to get one to maui we could look around for some grants (NOAA,
> NASA).
> >> But 5k is not enough. Multi million is a bit much, but its still a 100k+
> >> project AFTER moving it. You need a big boat for support. It could be
> done
> >> privately as well with tourism as main capacity and space research as
> >> an ancillary use.
> >>
> >> I know a guy in the big island had a big bubble dome. I dove it once.
> Had
> >> to bring an extra tank to fill it up.
> >>
> >> The state of Hawaii would allow us to lease underwater space. It has
> been
> >> done for the ocean aquaculture guys.
> >>
> >> This is a year 3-5 project idea AFTER we get a sustainable income
> stream,
> >> through grants, donations, and other fundraising.
> >>
> >> On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 7:07 PM, Jerry Isdale <jerry at mauimakers.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> There is a reason the abandoned or soon to be abandoned underwater
> >>> habitats are that way.
> >>> Mostly they have outlived their usable lifetimes.
> >>> One of my neighbors used to work on the NOAA Aquarius habitat like
> >>> 10-15yrs ago.
> >>> he said it was old and dangerous back then.
> >>> A real underwater habitat would be a multi-million dollar endeavor,
> and so
> >>> beyond the scope of what we could do.
> >>> An inflatable underwater garden/greenhouse? maybe that would be doable.
> >>>
> >>> Propulsion and guidance for atmospheric rockets is covered by ITAR I
> think.
> >>> Interplanetary is probably not.  Interstellar is probably too far out
> for
> >>> them to worry about (aside from nuclear which is restricted for other
> >>> reasons)
> >>>
> >>> The video that started this thread looked back at the history of
> physics
> >>> and identified a point where something happened.
> >>> Maxwell's unification of Electro-Magnetic-Light started a highly
> >>> productive time in physics and engineering.
> >>> And yet it was met with such vehement antagonism that a major
> >>> simplification/approximation was required for its acceptance.
> >>> What if there is a whole lot more lying in wait beyond that
> approximation?
> >>> Buck seemed to think it was a good fertile ground for research.
> >>> I think there are too few people who understand quaternions and the
> basics
> >>> of EM theory expressed that way.
> >>> I've started digging into it slowly (reading
> >>>
> http://www.das.uchile.cl/~rmendez/Documents/Roger_Penrose_Road_to_reality.pdf
> >>> )
> >>> over my head in first pages. I'd love a hacker based intro to the
> concepts.
> >>>
> >>> Jerry Isdale
> >>> http://MauiMakers.com
> >>> http://www.mauimakers.com/blog/thursday-public-meeting/
> >>>
> >>> On Sep 22, 2012, at 6:15 PM, Alex Cureton-Griffiths wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I like this idea! Any links for location/cost/condition/etc?
> Renovating a
> >>> research station to make it usable would be a useful experience in
> itself.
> >>> I think some of the Maui Makers crew have scuba experience as well, so
> >>> they'd be a good match for this project
> >>>
> >>> Propulsion is covered under ITAR I think, so doing anything hands-on
> (or
> >>> even hands-off) with that is a no-go since we're an international
> >>> organization. I love the idea of livability testing.
> >>>
> >>> On 23 Sep, 2012, at 12:07 PM, ainut at hiwaay.net wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Methinks one of the best items we could do with small sums of money is
> >>> adopt one of abandoned underwater "livability" research stations.
>  With one
> >>> of those, we could really test ideas from the group to see if it would
> work
> >>> in space.  How long term the tests are would depend upon each
> individual
> >>> goal, of course, but these 'habitats' are very cheap (maybe free) and
> are
> >>> test beds that will actually bite you if your ideas are not workable.
> >>> Small scale, of course.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> We need to think about the spaceship propulsion certainly, but
> livability
> >>> is just as high a concern; maybe higher if people are going on it!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> David M.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Quoting Jerry Isdale <jerry at mauimakers.com>:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Aloha Matt
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Buck's talk was on the large scale - partially to say to the group at
> >>> large - what needs to be done.
> >>>
> >>> If you are going to look at building an interstellar ship one big
> question
> >>> is the physics of propulsion
> >>>
> >>> that is what Buck focused on.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The 100YSS Org still seems pretty disOrg, IMHO. They have yet to
> create a
> >>> separate entity to run things, operating under Mae's Mother's
> non-profit
> >>> foundation for now.  I missed the wrapup session but I havent heard of
> >>> grand vision yet.  Only seen one summary of event so far too.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> As for how a Hackerspace or alliance of spaces could do things...
> >>>
> >>> It could be total anarchy, which would be mostly what hackers would
> prefer
> >>> i think,
> >>>
> >>> but our program has somewhat lower aspirations, at least in the short
> term.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> One goal (akin to the 100YSS.org) is securing funding/donations to
> allow
> >>> us to continue beyond the initial seed from DARPA.
> >>>
> >>> Where we diverge immediately, is the hacker goal of MAKE SOMETHING.
> >>>
> >>> actually producing something will also help secure funding, IMHO
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The proposal team has several ideas for projects.
> >>>
> >>> Cole has actually started on his (well he has 1000 ideas/min and 100
> >>> projects started/wk)
> >>>
> >>> Some other ideas have been talked about on this list or by private
> email.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> A Challenge is one option, but I dont think we can do an open ended one
> >>> like X-Prize (like "create a FTL drive") as that might not be claimed
> by
> >>> end of program. One challenge I have been talking up is an educational
> one
> >>> -- create open curriculum space science and/or hacker-tech course with
> all
> >>> material and replicate at another space purely using online comms.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> We will most likely have an official RFP out in a month or so.
> >>>
> >>> Start thinking of ideas - short run, low budget (3-6mo, <$5000USD).
> >>>
> >>> General area - humanity's long term survival and expansion into space
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Jerry Isdale
> >>>
> >>> isdale at spacegambit.org
> >>>
> >>> USA Program Lead, SpaceGAMBIT
> >>>
> >>> Global Alliance of Makers Building Interstellar Technology
> >>>
> >>> http://SpaceGAMBIT.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This email is intended only for the personal and confidential use of
> the
> >>> human(s) named above. If intercepted by an extraterrestrial
> civilization,
> >>> all opinions expressed in this email are my own and do not necessarily
> >>> reflect the opinion of mankind as a whole.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sep 22, 2012, at 3:49 PM, Matt Johnson wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi Jerry, I met you at 100YSS, that is how I heard about your space
> >>>
> >>> GAMBIT and this email list. As I understood it the talk was about how
> >>>
> >>> to focus physics research at a large scale, such as federally funded
> >>>
> >>> research projects and large university. I see hacker spaces involved
> >>>
> >>> in a large number of small loosely coordinated, or uncoordinated
> >>>
> >>> projects. Is that wrong? Since these project will be smaller, they
> >>>
> >>> would use more mundane project management techniques.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I had hoped that 100YSS would present some kind of road map or broad
> >>>
> >>> plan that the various groups working on interstellar space could
> >>>
> >>> follow. I still hope they present something. It would probably be
> >>>
> >>> worthwhile asking someone at 100YSS if they plan to produce a road
> >>>
> >>> map.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I am not sure how best to proceed with this sort of problem. You must
> >>>
> >>> have given it some thought before you made the DARPA grant proposals.
> >>>
> >>> What did you come up with? If I were thrown into this problem with no
> >>>
> >>> preparation I would start with some kind of literature search to get a
> >>>
> >>> picture of the current situation and try to interview experienced
> >>>
> >>> researchers in the field to find out what they think the next steps
> >>>
> >>> should be. Then some kind of RFP process to see what people are
> >>>
> >>> interested in doing.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I am not sure how something like RFPs would work in a hacker context,
> >>>
> >>> do you know of examples of this being done? Perhaps an "X prize" style
> >>>
> >>> approach is more appropriate. In either case they would benefit from
> >>>
> >>> some kind of evangelism and marketing.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Matt Johnson
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Sep 22, 2012 at 3:18 PM, Jerry Isdale <jerry at mauimakers.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> This was given in the context of the 100YSS organization.
> >>>
> >>> There are probably a half dozen different non-profit organizations and
> >>>
> >>> groups now pursuing space technology.
> >>>
> >>> To some extent each of these (including our SpaceGAMBIT) does 'control
> >>>
> >>> project goals and funds' which decides what work will be done, at
> least on
> >>>
> >>> their nickel.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> If you have a limited amount of funds and your goal is to give it to
> >>> hackers
> >>>
> >>> to further space education and research
> >>>
> >>> how would you decide what work will be done?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> That is a quandary that I face.
> >>>
> >>> Please help us decide.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Jerry Isdale
> >>>
> >>> isdale at spacegambit.org
> >>>
> >>> USA Program Lead, SpaceGAMBIT
> >>>
> >>> Global Alliance of Makers Building Interstellar Technology
> >>>
> >>> http://SpaceGAMBIT.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This email is intended only for the personal and confidential use of
> the
> >>>
> >>> human(s) named above. If intercepted by an extraterrestrial
> civilization,
> >>>
> >>> all opinions expressed in this email are my own and do not necessarily
> >>>
> >>> reflect the opinion of mankind as a whole.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sep 22, 2012, at 11:51 AM, Matt Johnson wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Interesting talk, the sliders were pretty funky though. I am sure
> >>>
> >>> there is a lot to be gained by using the best technics in decision
> >>>
> >>> making and project management. That assumes that there is some
> >>>
> >>> organziation or body that controls project goals and funds and that
> >>>
> >>> can decided what work will be done. That does not match with my
> >>>
> >>> understanding of what a hacker space is.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Matt Johnson
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 4:32 PM, Jerry Isdale <isdale at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This was the talk at 100YSS Symposium that kicked me off on Quaternion
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Maxwell Physics.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The engineer part of me likes the rigor Buck brings to the discussion
> ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The hacker part of me wants to run screaming naked thru the rainforest
> (my
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> backyard).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t95xWsxqNvI
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The discussion of Heaviside-Tate flame war and impact on theoretical
> (and
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> applied) physics starts about 12min in.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The rest of discussion is pretty interesting too.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Jerry Isdale
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> isdale at spacegambit.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> USA Program Lead, SpaceGAMBIT
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Global Alliance of Makers Building Interstellar Technology
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> http://SpaceGAMBIT.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> This email is intended only for the personal and confidential use of
> the
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> human(s) named above. If intercepted by an extraterrestrial
> civilization,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> all opinions expressed in this email are my own and do not necessarily
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> reflect the opinion of mankind as a whole.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
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> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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