[SpaceProgram] Lagrange Solar Sail Challenge

Fri Oct 5 02:41:18 CEST 2012

I think we'll need to have a gps on the helikite to transmit its location
to us in order for us to place the landing cushion, I'm not sure how well
we'd be able to even be able to see it at 3,000 feet.

On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 6:46 PM, Matt Johnson <railmeat at gmail.com> wrote:

> Interesting. Longer than I thought.
>
> --
> Matt Johnson
>
> On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 1:54 PM, Lee von Kraus <leevonk at gmail.com> wrote:
> > not considering wind resistance it would take:
> >
> > 11.1 seconds to fall 2000 feet, or
> >
> > 13.7 seconds to fall 3000 feet.
> >
> > (I used this website: http://www.gravitycalc.com/)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 12:44 PM, Matt Johnson <railmeat at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> How long would the free fall be for a 2000 foot fall? I wonder if it
> >> would be enough. We would probably need a much higher balloon and
> >> tether. Of course this exacerbates the problems of hoisting the tether
> >> and gondola and powering the gondola. This is almost starting to sound
> >> like engineering.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Matt
> >>
> >> On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 7:53 AM, Lee von Kraus <leevonk at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> > the website says the helikites can go up "thousands" of feet, not sure
> >> > how
> >> > many thousands though, but I guess at least more than 2000 if their
> >> > using
> >> > the word correctly.
> >> >
> >> > You're right about all that cable weight weighing things down too
> much.
> >> > So
> >> > it might be best to have a space-elevator-like gondola (as suggested
> >> > previously by Matt) thing that can climb up the single rope that's
> >> > anchoring
> >> > the helikite to the ground. The gondola can be powered by a laser from
> >> > the
> >> > ground (although I'm not sure how far a reasonably sized laser can
> shoot
> >> > power). That gondola would drive the capsule up to the helikite and
> then
> >> > 'throw' the capsule off and let it fall to the ground where we could
> >> > have
> >> > some sort of cushion to catch it. The capsules could have fins on them
> >> > to
> >> > better ensure that they fall straight down
> >> >
> >> > As the fallen capsule is being retrieved the gondola would already be
> on
> >> > its
> >> > way back down to get the same, or another capsule. The system wouldn't
> >> > be
> >> > too speedy but would still be a useful tool, I'd imagine the demand
> for
> >> > usage would be pretty high from schools and amateur scientists that
> >> > can't
> >> > afford other micro-G options.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Thu, Oct 4, 2012 at 7:29 AM, Jerry Isdale <jerry at mauimakers.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Depending on how high you go and the kg/m mass of the cable, it is
> >> >> possible that the weight of the 2x length of cable could be more than
> >> >> the
> >> >> weight of the winch.
> >> >> using this kevlar rope as a guide...
> >> >> http://www.pelicanrope.com/kevlar12strandrope.html
> >> >> say we pick the 7/16", 15,000lb tensile strength rope at 5lbs/100ft.
> >> >> ('cause thats an easy weight)
> >> >> a 1,000ft length will weigh... 50lbs?
> >> >>
> >> >> 1000 ft will not give much free fall time. Parabolic flights are on
> the
> >> >> order of 8000ft deltas ...400lbs
> >> >> Although rolling all that cable up into the helikite would require a
> >> >> lot
> >> >> of space/big spool.
> >> >>
> >> >> Jerry Isdale
> >> >> http://MauiMakers.com
> >> >> http://www.mauimakers.com/blog/thursday-public-meeting/
> >> >>
> >> >> On Oct 3, 2012, at 5:04 AM, Lee von Kraus wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> The best way to maximize the allowable experimental capsule weight
> >> >> would
> >> >> be to have all the motor mechanisms on the ground as shown in the
> >> >> attached
> >> >> figure. That way the only mechanism, other than the capsule, that
> needs
> >> >> to
> >> >> be carried by the helikite is a pulley (and the weight of the capsule
> >> >> line).
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 10:42 AM, Lee von Kraus <leevonk at gmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Here are some useful excerpts:
> >> >>> "
> >> >>> The 10 cubic metre Skyhook Helikite is able to fly to thousands of
> >> >>> feet
> >> >>> in winds up to 50 mph lifting a payload of 5kg.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Helikites are designed for foul weather deployment and foul weather
> >> >>> flight. Even the largest Skyhook Helikites can be launched and
> >> >>> retrieved in
> >> >>> all the winds that they can fly in. So deployment and flight can
> occur
> >> >>> safely in winds up to 50 or 60 mph.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> The new Cased Helikite Aerostat Maintainable Platform (CHAMP) (see
> >> >>> products section) allows the deployment of a 10 cubic metre Skyhook
> >> >>> Helikite
> >> >>> within 30 minutes. The unique part of the CHAMP is that it also
> >> >>> includes an
> >> >>> excellent Helibase with top cover thus also creating a permanent,
> safe
> >> >>> base
> >> >>> for the Helikite - not just a minimal launch platform.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Helikites can even be launched and recovered remotely - with no
> people
> >> >>> present at all. They are simply winched off or onto the Helibase.
> >> >>> "
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 10:37 AM, Lee von Kraus <leevonk at gmail.com>
> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> here is a link better describing the advantages of helikites:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> http://www.allsopp.co.uk/index.php?mod=page&id_pag=24
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
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> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
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