[Finance] Finance Digest, Vol 5, Issue 4

Grant Henninger grant.henninger at gmail.com
Fri Oct 29 01:20:41 CEST 2010 

To tell you the truth, I hadn't been thinking about using a gym-type
membership model, I had been thinking of using a model more along the lines
of Kinko's (a self-serve photocopy store).  However, after looking at it and
running the numbers, I understand why every hackerspace, whether it's
for-profit or not, uses a membership based model.

I don't agree with you when you say that the more you focus on the balance
sheet, the more you lose focus of people.  Having a healthy and sustainable
business, whether for-profit or not, is a necessity to be able to serve
people and enable their creations.  At the same time, focusing on the
members of the community is important to ensure the balance sheet stays
strong.  You simply can't have one without the other.

I don't intend to build a hackerspace with the only intention of making
money.  I work for a non-profit now and am very involved in my community.
 I'm fairly passionate about helping people.  My focus here on the budget
was simply because this is the finance mailing list.  I thought that this
was where these types of discussions were suppose to happen.

-Grant

2010/10/27 Jerél Jerél <0.jerel.0 at gmail.com>

> Hacker Space is an organization - Hacker Space is about the members,
> the people, the community, the group.
> If you lose sight of that then you miss the whole concept.
>
> Hacker Space is not a business. It is not about the location, the
> equipment the toys.
>
> Its heart - its core is people.
>
> The more you make it about balance sheets, the more you lose focus of
> people.
> The more you lose focus of people, the more your balance sheet will be
> in the red.
> --conversely--
> The more you make it about the people, the projects, the group effort,
> the community - the more it will thrive.
>
> It sounds to me like you are going for more a gym/fitness center
> business model.
>
> Grant, i do not know you, nor am i attacking your idea.
>
> however, in my opinion you are selling yourself short.
> - if you go into this with a retail mentality you will be missing 98%
> of what Hacker Space is all about.
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 1:27 PM,
> <finance-request at lists.hackerspaces.org> wrote:
> > Send Finance mailing list submissions to
> >        finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >        http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/finance
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >        finance-request at lists.hackerspaces.org
> >
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >        finance-owner at lists.hackerspaces.org
> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Finance digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. Re: Startup Costs (Grant Henninger)
> >   2. Re: Startup Costs (Grant Henninger)
> >   3. Re: Startup Costs (Christopher J. Pilkington)
> >   4. Re: Startup Costs (Jeff Cotten)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 09:23:45 -0700
> > From: Grant Henninger <grant.henninger at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Finance] Startup Costs
> > To: Brain Tank <thebraintank at gmail.com>
> > Cc: finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
> > Message-ID:
> >        <AANLkTimrnbqX-q4=cdEiauZeh2CZ2B8sr6m7YmqUn632 at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > All,
> >
> > Thank you for your helpful comments.  We're looking at a slightly
> different
> > model than most hackerspaces.  We want to run more like a for-profit
> service
> > company than a co-op.  One of the reasons we want to buy a lot of the
> > equipment up front is so we have a full set of services we can offer and
> > keep early adopters coming back.  However, I think you all have a good
> point
> > about ways to cut down on the costs.  There is probably quite a bit I can
> > cut out that isn't really needed.  I'll sharpen my pencil and see what I
> can
> > cut.
> >
> > -Grant Henninger
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:34 AM, Brain Tank <thebraintank at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Grant,
> >>
> >> Where are you starting your Hackerspace?
> >>
> >>
> >> -Dave
> >>
> >> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Dan Hess <dan9186 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> We've yet to move into a location as we're shopping around, currently
> >>> we're planning roughly $1500 for first/last months rent, $1500 for
> rainy day
> >>> funds to smooth out the times where there may be excess vs not enough
> >>> members, and probably not even $1000 in furniture and other move in
> costs.
> >>>
> >>> I think that you'll find that anything you think you just really need,
> >>> your group will find a rather creative way to obtain it while keeping
> the
> >>> costs down.  Necessity is the mother of invention.  We want pretty much
> all
> >>> of those same things you've listed, but are certain to be obtained over
> time
> >>> and after we've moved in.  There's plenty of hacking/making that can go
> on
> >>> in a shop that doesn't have an excess of tools and I would personally
> think
> >>> you wouldn't want to stave all of the growth of the group that comes
> with
> >>> having a space for lack of some equipment.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Daniel
> >>> http://www.midsouthmakers.org
> >>>
> >>> - Copying one is plagiarism, copying many is research.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:16 AM, Leigh Honeywell <leigh at hypatia.ca
> >wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 10-10-25 03:05 PM, Grant Henninger wrote:
> >>>> > A few friends and I are looking at starting up our own hackerspace.
> >>>> >  We've tried to think through what we'll need to buy in order to get
> >>>> our
> >>>> > place up and running, but I'm sure we're leaving things out.  For
> those
> >>>> > of you who have been through this process before, what were your
> >>>> startup
> >>>> > costs?
> >>>>
> >>>> Our costs were just under $3000 for first/last months' rent, plus
> about
> >>>> $1000 on furniture at Ikea.  You can probably save on the latter by
> >>>> spending some quality time with Craigslist, but at the time we just
> >>>> really wanted to get some desks and shelving and be done with it :)
> >>>>
> >>>> -Leigh
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Finance mailing list
> >>>> Finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
> >>>> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/finance
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Finance mailing list
> >>> Finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
> >>> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/finance
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Finance mailing list
> >> Finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
> >> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/finance
> >>
> >>
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 09:24:24 -0700
> > From: Grant Henninger <grant.henninger at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Finance] Startup Costs
> > To: Brain Tank <thebraintank at gmail.com>
> > Cc: finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
> > Message-ID:
> >        <AANLkTikDyQOsCDkPWA3mOPG2Pk96Oc-KW7BLzj3eRYq8 at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > Dave,
> >
> > We're looking in Anaheim, CA.  (Let me know if you're local and want a
> bit
> > more detail than that.)
> >
> > -Grant
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:34 AM, Brain Tank <thebraintank at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Grant,
> >>
> >> Where are you starting your Hackerspace?
> >>
> >>
> >> -Dave
> >>
> >> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Dan Hess <dan9186 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> We've yet to move into a location as we're shopping around, currently
> >>> we're planning roughly $1500 for first/last months rent, $1500 for
> rainy day
> >>> funds to smooth out the times where there may be excess vs not enough
> >>> members, and probably not even $1000 in furniture and other move in
> costs.
> >>>
> >>> I think that you'll find that anything you think you just really need,
> >>> your group will find a rather creative way to obtain it while keeping
> the
> >>> costs down.  Necessity is the mother of invention.  We want pretty much
> all
> >>> of those same things you've listed, but are certain to be obtained over
> time
> >>> and after we've moved in.  There's plenty of hacking/making that can go
> on
> >>> in a shop that doesn't have an excess of tools and I would personally
> think
> >>> you wouldn't want to stave all of the growth of the group that comes
> with
> >>> having a space for lack of some equipment.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Daniel
> >>> http://www.midsouthmakers.org
> >>>
> >>> - Copying one is plagiarism, copying many is research.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 7:16 AM, Leigh Honeywell <leigh at hypatia.ca
> >wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 10-10-25 03:05 PM, Grant Henninger wrote:
> >>>> > A few friends and I are looking at starting up our own hackerspace.
> >>>> >  We've tried to think through what we'll need to buy in order to get
> >>>> our
> >>>> > place up and running, but I'm sure we're leaving things out.  For
> those
> >>>> > of you who have been through this process before, what were your
> >>>> startup
> >>>> > costs?
> >>>>
> >>>> Our costs were just under $3000 for first/last months' rent, plus
> about
> >>>> $1000 on furniture at Ikea.  You can probably save on the latter by
> >>>> spending some quality time with Craigslist, but at the time we just
> >>>> really wanted to get some desks and shelving and be done with it :)
> >>>>
> >>>> -Leigh
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Finance mailing list
> >>>> Finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
> >>>> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/finance
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Finance mailing list
> >>> Finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
> >>> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/finance
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Finance mailing list
> >> Finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
> >> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/finance
> >>
> >>
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL: <
> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/pipermail/finance/attachments/20101027/2a32fa7d/attachment-0001.htm
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 14:30:45 -0400
> > From: "Christopher J. Pilkington" <cjp at 0x1.net>
> > Subject: Re: [Finance] Startup Costs
> > To: Grant Henninger <grant.henninger at gmail.com>
> > Cc: finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
> > Message-ID: <20101027183045.GF11190 at 0x1.net>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 09:23:45AM -0700, Grant Henninger wrote:
> >> model than most hackerspaces.  We want to run more like a for-profit
> service
> >> company than a co-op.  One of the reasons we want to buy a lot of the
> equipment
> >> up front is so we have a full set of services we can offer and keep
> early
> >> adopters coming back.  However, I think you all have a good point about
> ways to
> >
> > So you are adopting something like the TechShop model.
> >
> > This model is not a hackerspace at all IMHO, so I think you
> > should probably seek other input regarding start up costs.
> >
> > For example, if I were looking to join a TechShop-type
> > establishment, I would expect and demand access to a full
> > compliment of professional-grade tools, as you listed.
> > (Although, I think you mentioned MakerBot, I'm not sure that's
> > appropriate for a for-profit workshop, but it might be ok to
> > start with.)
> >
> > For a collaborative, donation and membership supported
> > hackerspace, I'm willing to put in the elbow grease, extra money
> > here and there to fix things and acquire new tools. I wouldn't
> > be willing to do the same in a for-profit space (unless perhaps
> > I was a shareholder.)
> >
> > We are starting our non-profit membership supported space on a
> > shoestring. All the tools that we will have day one will be
> > member owned and on loan to the space, until we start saving up
> > some money.
> >
> > -cjp
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 14:25:25 -0500
> > From: Jeff Cotten <omegix at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Finance] Startup Costs
> > To: "Christopher J. Pilkington" <cjp at 0x1.net>
> > Cc: finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
> > Message-ID:
> >        <AANLkTi=MN1w=pu6fvrhzUkW+r_q4Qmare_Yd4LKC1d2E at mail.gmail.com<pu6fvrhzUkW%2Br_q4Qmare_Yd4LKC1d2E at mail.gmail.com>
> >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > I've never used this site, but I thought it would be a good tool for
> someone
> > wanting to start a for-profit techshop type space.
> >
> >
> > http://www.kickstarter.com/
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 1:30 PM, Christopher J. Pilkington <cjp at 0x1.net
> >wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 09:23:45AM -0700, Grant Henninger wrote:
> >> > model than most hackerspaces.  We want to run more like a for-profit
> >> service
> >> > company than a co-op.  One of the reasons we want to buy a lot of the
> >> equipment
> >> > up front is so we have a full set of services we can offer and keep
> early
> >> > adopters coming back.  However, I think you all have a good point
> about
> >> ways to
> >>
> >> So you are adopting something like the TechShop model.
> >>
> >> This model is not a hackerspace at all IMHO, so I think you
> >> should probably seek other input regarding start up costs.
> >>
> >> For example, if I were looking to join a TechShop-type
> >> establishment, I would expect and demand access to a full
> >> compliment of professional-grade tools, as you listed.
> >> (Although, I think you mentioned MakerBot, I'm not sure that's
> >> appropriate for a for-profit workshop, but it might be ok to
> >> start with.)
> >>
> >> For a collaborative, donation and membership supported
> >> hackerspace, I'm willing to put in the elbow grease, extra money
> >> here and there to fix things and acquire new tools. I wouldn't
> >> be willing to do the same in a for-profit space (unless perhaps
> >> I was a shareholder.)
> >>
> >> We are starting our non-profit membership supported space on a
> >> shoestring. All the tools that we will have day one will be
> >> member owned and on loan to the space, until we start saving up
> >> some money.
> >>
> >> -cjp
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Finance mailing list
> >> Finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
> >> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/finance
> >>
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> > ------------------------------
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Finance mailing list
> > Finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
> > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/finance
> >
> >
> > End of Finance Digest, Vol 5, Issue 4
> > *************************************
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Finance mailing list
> Finance at lists.hackerspaces.org
> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/finance
>
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