[hackerspaces] Matrx group chat channels

Kẏra ​ kxra at riseup.net
Sat Jul 8 21:32:19 CEST 2017

Why did you just ignore the answer when I sent it?


What is the difference between Matrix and XMPP?
> The Matrix team used XMPP (Openfire, ejabberd, spectrum, asmack,
> XMPPFramework) for IM before starting to experiment with open HTTP APIs as
> an alternative in around 2012. The main issues with XMPP that drove us in
> this direction were:
>     Not particularly web-friendly - you can’t easily speak XMPP from a web
> browser. (N.B. Nowadays you have options like XMPP-FTW and Stanza.io that
> help loads with letting browsers talk XMPP).
>     Single logical server per MUC is a single point of control and
> availability. (MUCs can be distributed over multiple physical servers, but
> they still sit behind a single logical JID and domain. FMUC improves this
> with a similar approach to Matrix, but as of Oct 2015 there are no open
> source implementations.)
>     History synchronisation is very much a second class citizen feature
>     Bridging to other protocols and defragmenting existing communication
> apps and networks is very much a second class citizen feature
>     Stanzas aren’t framed or reliably delivered without extensions. (See
> wiki.xmpp.org for an XMPP take on this)
>     Multiple device support is limited. (Apparently Carbons and MAM help
> with this)
>     Baseline feature set is so minimal that fragmentation of features
> between clients and servers is common, especially as interoperability
> profiles for features have fallen behind (as of July 2015)
>     No strong identity system (i.e. no standard E2E PKI, unless you count
> X.509 certs, which are questionable)
>     Not particularly well designed for mobile use cases: push;
> bandwidth-efficient transports. (Since the time of writing a Push XEP has
> appeared, and wiki.xmpp.org claims that XMPP runs “fine” over a 9600bps +
> 30s latency link.)
> The whole subject of XMPP vs Matrix seems to bring out the worst in
> people. Rather than fighting over which open interoperable communication
> standard works the best, we should just collaborate and bridge everything
> together. The more federation and interoperability the better.
> We think of Matrix and XMPP as being quite different; at its core Matrix
> can be thought of as an eventually consistent global JSON db with an HTTP
> API and pubsub semantics - whilst XMPP can be thought of as a message
> passing protocol. You can use them both to build chat systems; you can use
> them both to build pubsub systems; each comes with different tradeoffs.
> Matrix has a deliberately extensive ‘kitchen sink’ baseline of
> functionality; XMPP has a deliberately minimal baseline set of
> functionality. If XMPP does what you need it to do, then we’re genuinely
> happy for you :) Meanwhile, rather than competing, an XMPP Bridge like
> Skaverat’s xmpptrix beta or jfred’s matrix-xmpp-bridge or Matrix.org’s own
> purple-matrix has potential to let both environments coexist and make the
> most of each other’s benefits.


What is the difference between Matrix and IRC?
> We love IRC.  In fact, as of today the core Matrix team still uses it as
> our primary communication tool. Between us we’ve written IRCds, IRC bots
> and admined dreamforge, UnrealIRCd, epona, ircservices and several others.
> That said, it has some limitations that Matrix seeks to improve on:
>     Text only
>     No history
>     No multiple-device support
>     No presence support
>     Fragmented identity model
>     No open federation
>     No standard APIs, just a rather limited TCP line protocol
>     Non-standardised federation protocol
>     No built-in end-to-end encryption
>     Disruptive net-splits
>     Non-extensible
> IRCv3 exists and is addressing some of these issues; this is great news
> and we wish them well. It’s almost a contradiction in terms to get
> competitive between openly interoperable communication projects - we look
> forward to increasing the richness of Matrix<->IRC bridges as the project
> progresses.

On Jul 8, 2017 1:47 PM, "Big Smile" <big.smile at openmailbox.org> wrote:

Can't understand why they don't use XMPP and participate in XEP
writting. This look like an another "not invented here" driven project.
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