[hackerspaces] Classes and costs

dosman dosman at packetsniffers.org
Thu Jul 21 19:25:13 CEST 2016

100% pure bunk. If they are on your property (counts for rented property too) then you can be found liable. Now move on with life.

Anyone can sue your space at any time for anything, your only protection is due-dilagence. Have public liability insurance for your space. Have everyone stepping into your space sign an injury liability waiver. Liability waivers don’t stop anyone from sueing, but it certainly makes it harder for them them in the court room if they do sue. If you are using tools, give folks a heads up of common ways to avoid injury (the tip of the soldering iron is hot, no touchy. leaded solder is bad, keep your fingers out of your mouth, etc). If you are doing something dangerous, take standard precautions: use safety glasses/full face shield, gloves, aprons, and any other safety gear merited for the activity should the activity go wrong. 

If something does go bad, and someone wants to lawyer up, having done these things makes it way harder for someone to prove you were negligent in the court room. Unless you were actually being negligent. Doing all these things, then letting some rando's kids juggle chainsaws in your space is dumb. It takes vigilance to keep a place safe and still allow hackerspace anarchy to thrive. There’s no 100% way to ensure everything will be ok, but not doing something because of fear of being sued is no way to operate. Within reason of course.


> On Jul 21, 2016, at 12:00 PM, Pete Prodoehl <raster at gmail.com> wrote:
> Because my space sometimes has gloom and doom people, someone brought up the idea that if you charge for a class, you could be held responsible if someone in the class gets injured. This would be different than if you did *not* charge for a class because there is no (or less?) expectation of responsibility if you are not charging for your services/expertise.
> I think the thought is that a student would try to sue you personally versus the space, and there was a suggestion that individuals who teach should get their own personal insurance that would cover the teaching they do. (The space has its own insurance and waiver/disclaimer forms that everyone signs.)
> I am definitely not a lawyer, but I'd love to hear what others think of that idea. (And yes, I am in the overly-litigious United States.)
> Pete
> On 7/21/16 10:42 AM, Silence Dogood wrote:
>> one side benefit of charging for classes is allowing the class teachers to profit.  this can be particularly important for space members who need supplemental income to afford their dues or to get them by between contracts / gigs / what have you.
>> On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 6:24 AM, webmind <webmind at puscii.nl <mailto:webmind at puscii.nl>> wrote:
>> On 20/07/16 17:48, Chad Elish wrote:
>> > Here’s a question for everyone,
>> >
>> > What do you normally charge for your classes?
>> > I know its a big cash cow for spaces to make up income.
>> Hmm, not here. I think most Dutch spaces mostly run on membership-income.
>> Both spaces in Amsterdam do not have a set price, LAG generally asks
>> donation Technologia Incognita mostly the same or people ask cost-price.
>> IJHack (a "space" without a space) has been doing workshops to generate
>> some income, I think they did twice the cost price to have a buffer of
>> components or be able to share kits.
>> > We’re currently at $40.00 for a learn to solder class which you take
>> > home an arduino you soldered together. We recently noticed tech shop
>> > charging $99 for soldering a blinking badge together.
>> Do a lot of spaces elsewhere use workshops/services as a way of
>> providing basic-income for the space? Do spaces have other models
>> outside of services or membership to generate base-income?
>> At LAG we're currently looking at alternative ways of generating income
>> for the rent/etc.
>> Thanks!
>> webmind
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