[hackerspaces] In defense of Noisebridge (even if I was never there!)

Thu Jul 3 20:35:50 CEST 2014

The question is: when does it become activism?

On 03/07/2014 11:31, Naomi Most wrote:
> Whoops, apologies, I was trying to reply to Colin, not to Randall.
>
> Colin, the question stands:
>
> You're saying that there shouldn't be diversity in how hackerspaces are run?
>
> --Naomi
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 11:13 AM, Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>> "Asking for diversity in hackerspaces as a whole is going to lead to
>> hackerspaces being looked down upon and will lead to Noisebridge-esque
>> jokes being hackerspace-esque instead."
>>
>> You're saying that there shouldn't be diversity in how hackerspaces are run?
>>
>> --Naomi
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 11:11 AM, Randall G. Arnold
>> <randall.arnold at texrat.net> wrote:
>>> Ok, good point, "politics" is a broad term.  Let me qualify my statements by
>>> saying we avoid city/state/federal *electoral* politics.  Of course politics
>>> isn't completely avoidable in a generic sense.
>>>
>>> Randy
>>>
>>>> On July 3, 2014 at 1:08 PM Naomi Most <pnaomi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Most of you are characterizing the issue of whether politics "belong"
>>>> or "don't belong" in hackerspaces as if it's a binary issue.
>>>>
>>>> You need to see politics as one of the difficulty level selectors in
>>>> the hackerspace game.
>>>>
>>>> Noisebridge plays on Nightmare mode.
>>>>
>>>> --Naomi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Randall G. Arnold
>>>> <randall.arnold at texrat.net> wrote:
>>>>> And I go back to my belief that it's possible (and highly beneficial) to
>>>>> craft maker Do Good missions that avoid politics entirely by sticking
>>>>> with a
>>>>> common, necessary goal that clearly cuts across political lines. In
>>>>> Texas,
>>>>> water is a huge one. It *used* to be politicized, but in recent years
>>>>> those
>>>>> artificial walls are crumbling. Water shortages don't care what
>>>>> political
>>>>> party you claim-- they fuck us all equally. The worse it gets, the
>>>>> easier
>>>>> it is to find common ground... and avoid the trappings of politics.
>>>>>
>>>>> Look, career politicians love to polarize. Many even get off on
>>>>> agitating.
>>>>> As an independent I've quite frankly had enough. So my goal is to climb
>>>>> out
>>>>> of the conventional trenches, quit playing their silly game and just Do
>>>>> Good. And seek out and surround myself with like-minded people. To a
>>>>> large
>>>>> extent that's working well. And when I run into provocateurs, I just
>>>>> grit
>>>>> my teeth, smile and say "bless your heart".
>>>>>
>>>>> ;)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On July 3, 2014 at 12:42 PM matt <matt at nycresistor.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Resistor has always had a 'leave the politics at the door' informal
>>>>> policy.
>>>>>
>>>>> We don't tend to get involved in political shit. I mean occasionally we
>>>>> all
>>>>> agree something is bullshit, and occasionally someone vents some
>>>>> political
>>>>> frustration. But for the most part we've made sure to be welcoming to
>>>>> all
>>>>> political positions.
>>>>> As someone who was christened by the divine paw of the bunny budha and
>>>>> anointed the one true ruler of the solar system and protector of the
>>>>> milky
>>>>> way galaxy, I often find myself at odds with others political
>>>>> situations.
>>>>> But I've always been accepted at Resistor in spite of my unique
>>>>> political
>>>>> perspective.
>>>>> We care more about hacking than any shared mandate.
>>>>>
>>>>> That being said, a community can form around many things. Including
>>>>> social
>>>>> and political causes. I could see no reason something like code for
>>>>> america
>>>>> couldn't become a community of like minded folks who cultivate a
>>>>> community
>>>>> promoting a social and political agenda. Would might maybe be great,
>>>>> even
>>>>> without the blessing of his divine hoppiness.
>>>>> -Matt
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Al Billings <albill at openbuddha.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Is your space welcoming to people, regardless of personal politics or do
>>>>> you
>>>>> have to be a specific kind of lefty/socialist/anarchist/hippy/whatever
>>>>> in
>>>>> order to be welcome?
>>>>>
>>>>> I say this as a socialist but I don’t want there to be a political
>>>>> litmus
>>>>> test on whether people are welcome in a space. My space has members who,
>>>>> quietly on occasion, bitch about Obama and his “agenda” with an eye roll
>>>>> from some other members. We have a communist or two and probably more
>>>>> than a
>>>>> few anarchists. Generally, I know someone for a year or more before I
>>>>> even
>>>>> realize their personal politics. Why? Because we’re there to hack, not
>>>>> to
>>>>> form a political party.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are definitely spaces where this isn’t the case. If you aren’t on
>>>>> board with the specific local politics (which are usually a certain
>>>>> specific
>>>>> form of left leaning anarchism), you are shunned pretty heavily and
>>>>> “don’t
>>>>> fit in.” I’d rather have a Republican that wants to build a project from
>>>>> salvaged computers than an anarchist that just wants to hang out in the
>>>>> kitchen “food hacking.”
>>>>>
>>>>> Al
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 3, 2014, at 10:28 AM, Randall G. Arnold <
>>>>> randall.arnold at texrat.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I disagree when you frame that as an absolute. Sure, there CAN be
>>>>> negative
>>>>> outcomes when a maker/hacker space or organization has fixing societal
>>>>> problems as a goal, but it ain't necessarily so. It all comes down to
>>>>> defining the goal(s), having people to support them and for members with
>>>>> different goals to be respectful of each other and not get in each
>>>>> other's
>>>>> way.
>>>>>
>>>>> If as a makerspace member I put together a special interest group that
>>>>> builds remote wildlife monitoring stations for helping horned lizard
>>>>> conservation, and I don't disrupt anyone else in the process, then I'm
>>>>> positively hacking the planet and no one gets hurt. Win-win.
>>>>>
>>>>> Al Billings
>>>>> albill at openbuddha.com
>>>>> http://makehacklearn.org
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
>>>>> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Randall (Randy) Arnold
>>>>> Developer and Enthusiast Advocate
>>>>> http://texrat.net
>>>>> +18177396806
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
>>>>> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Naomi Theora Most
>>>> naomi at nthmost.com
>>>> +1-415-728-7490
>>>>
>>>> skype: nthmost
>>>>
>>>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>>
>>
>> --
>> Naomi Theora Most
>> naomi at nthmost.com
>> +1-415-728-7490
>>
>> skype: nthmost
>>
>> http://twitter.com/nthmost
>
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