[hackerspaces] Failing/failed hackerspaces

Fri Apr 4 22:01:52 CEST 2014

Why are we failing to solidly define "failing"?

hehe...kidding, of course! Totally in agreement, Sam.

Randall: I think Sam's just saying it's up to whoever responds to set the
context & define "failure" for whatever stories they have to tell.

On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 2:57 PM, Sam Ley <sam.ley at gmail.com> wrote:

> Leave it to the Hackerspaces list to deeply debate the definition of
> "failing". I think for the OP's purposes, nearly any definition of
> "failing" would be fine, as long as it yields some lessons that could be
> learned by a space wanting to be "less failing" in any category.
>
> As for reasons they fail (by any definition) my experience would say that
> "bad at accounting" would be very high on the list, with "not researching
> local codes and regulations" and "poor expectation setting regarding
> organizational responsibilities" as close seconds.
>
> -Sam
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 1:53 PM, Sung won Lim <4phlebas at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Well there could be something like a completely corrupt and abusive
>> hackerspace that earns enough money to keep the doors open. You could
>> always get unpaid interns make things and then sell them/offer the process
>> as classes without crediting them.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Randall G. Arnold <
>> randall.arnold at texrat.net> wrote:
>>
>>>   Yeah, it's really easy to spawn tangents on this topic.  ;)
>>>  If a space fails to appeal to visitors, yet is still successful for the
>>> regulars, then I guess it loses its designation as An Official Tourist
>>> Attraction.  More beer for the locals.
>>>
>>>  Seriously: if you're pleasing your target audience, yet irritating
>>> people you didn't target (even inadvertantly), I fail to see a problem...
>>> unless said outreach was part of the mission.  But even then, not a failure
>>> unless the administration fails to investigate and address.  Just an
>>> opportunity (sorry, old corporate habit).
>>>
>>>  And if pleasing visitors is ouside the mission, or is seen as obviously
>>> more work than it's worth, then no real issue.  Also still more beer.
>>>
>>>
>>> On April 4, 2014 at 2:41 PM Crawford Comeaux <crawford.comeaux at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  What about failing to be fun/appealing to visitors from other spaces?
>>> Disregard if that also leads to hair-splitting ;)
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Randall G. Arnold <
>>> randall.arnold at texrat.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>   That's another question that requires context.  I doubt the locals
>>> would see it as failing, even as global community might.  And not to
>>> nitpick, but failing what?  I agree with Mark: if it's open it's certainly
>>> not an operational failure... but I can see where some might see
>>> *philosophical* failure if it didn't meet certain conventions.  And even
>>> THAT starts up the usual hair-splitting...
>>>
>>>  It's Friday.  No hair-splitting for me.  ;)
>>>
>>>  Randy
>>>  Tarrant Makers
>>>
>>>
>>> On April 4, 2014 at 2:24 PM Crawford Comeaux <
>>> crawford.comeaux at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Would a failing space be one that may be locally successful, but viewed
>>> negatively in the global hackerspace community?
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 2:22 PM, Mark Henderson <mhenderson683 at live.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>  I define a failed space as one who's no longer in business.  Doors
>>> closed, memberships cancelled, 100% out of business.
>>>
>>>  ------------------------------
>>> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 12:50:39 -0400
>>> From: 4phlebas at gmail.com
>>> To: discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
>>> Subject: Re: [hackerspaces] Failing/failed hackerspaces
>>>
>>>
>>>  Define failed hackerspace- if a nasty space keeps on chugging along
>>> through geographical/media clout despite severe issues, is it a successful
>>> space?
>>>
>>>  -sung
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Jesse Krembs <jessekrembs at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>  Hey Matt
>>>
>>>  I would argue that neither the HHH or the L0pht are good examples of
>>> failed spaces.
>>>  The HHH was a residence first in my view and just happened to be
>>> populated by hackertypes.
>>>  The L0pht predates the modern hackerspaces era, was private and was a
>>> unique beast, also it  didn't so much as get bought by corporate interests
>>> and sold out to (or bought in).
>>>
>>>  3rd Ward might be better example. (makerspace).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 12:35 PM, matt <matt at nycresistor.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>   > 1.  What are some well known failed spaces to the discussion group,
>>> and
>>> > what caused them to fail?
>>>
>>>  HHH ( all the things ), L0pht ( purchased by corporate interest ),
>>> Countless tiny unheard of spaces.
>>>
>>>   > 2.  Are there any spaces that are "too big to fail", i.e. too much
>>> money is
>>> > invested in the space - so much so that it has become a disservice to
>>> the
>>> > community instead of an asset?  What are some of the common mistakes
>>> > that spaces make that keep them from growing or succeeding?
>>>
>>>   Noisebridge.
>>>
>>>  I'd ask you this.  Is growth success?  Start with what your own metric
>>> for success is.  If you are just building a physical edifice to your own
>>> interest, you've probably already failed.  If you are trying to start a
>>> movement to support a crusade... again you've failed.  If you are just
>>> trying to find a group of people you want to hack with... then all you need
>>> is enough people to be happy and survive.  What keeps people from success
>>> generally, is failing to identify what their metric for success is.  Or
>>> trying to do too many things.  You can't be all things to all people.  The
>>> other big one is believing there is a community to support your goals when
>>> sometimes there just isn't.  And the last and worst... thinking you can
>>> turn running a hackerspace into a career.
>>>
>>>  > 3.  Has anyone taken failed models and used them as sort of a "this
>>> is what
>>> > not to do" list?  Where could I source that info?
>>>
>>> http://hackerspaces.org/images/8/8e/Hacker-Space-Design-Patterns.pdf
>>>
>>>   > 4.  For people new to this industry, what are some of the common
>>> > newcomer mistakes in starting up a makerspace/hackerspace that you
>>> would
>>> > have liked to been made aware of so you could have avoided them and
>>> > saved yourself a massive headache?
>>>  Trust every member of your space as if they had keys to your home.  If
>>> you can't do that, you've already failed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Mark Henderson <
>>> mhenderson683 at live.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>    I have some questions about failed or failing hackerspaces and
>>> makerspaces.
>>>
>>> 1.  What are some well known failed spaces to the discussion group, and
>>> what caused them to fail?
>>>
>>>  2.  Are there any spaces that are "too big to fail", i.e. too much
>>> money is invested in the space - so much so that it has become a disservice
>>> to the community instead of an asset?  What are some of the common mistakes
>>> that spaces make that keep them from growing or succeeding?
>>>
>>>  3.  Has anyone taken failed models and used them as sort of a "this is
>>> what not to do" list?  Where could I source that info?
>>>
>>>  4.  For people new to this industry, what are some of the common
>>> newcomer mistakes in starting up a makerspace/hackerspace that you would
>>> have liked to been made aware of so you could have avoided them and saved
>>> yourself a massive headache?
>>>
>>>  Thanks!
>>>
>>> Mark Henderson
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  --
>>> Jesse Krembs
>>> 802.233.7051
>>>
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