[hackerspaces] Failing/failed hackerspaces

Sung won Lim 4phlebas at gmail.com
Fri Apr 4 21:53:34 CEST 2014 

Well there could be something like a completely corrupt and abusive
hackerspace that earns enough money to keep the doors open. You could
always get unpaid interns make things and then sell them/offer the process
as classes without crediting them.




On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Randall G. Arnold <randall.arnold at texrat.net
> wrote:

>   Yeah, it's really easy to spawn tangents on this topic.  ;)
>  If a space fails to appeal to visitors, yet is still successful for the
> regulars, then I guess it loses its designation as An Official Tourist
> Attraction.  More beer for the locals.
>
>  Seriously: if you're pleasing your target audience, yet irritating people
> you didn't target (even inadvertantly), I fail to see a problem... unless
> said outreach was part of the mission.  But even then, not a failure unless
> the administration fails to investigate and address.  Just an opportunity
> (sorry, old corporate habit).
>
>  And if pleasing visitors is ouside the mission, or is seen as obviously
> more work than it's worth, then no real issue.  Also still more beer.
>
>
> On April 4, 2014 at 2:41 PM Crawford Comeaux <crawford.comeaux at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>  What about failing to be fun/appealing to visitors from other spaces?
> Disregard if that also leads to hair-splitting ;)
>
>
>  On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 2:37 PM, Randall G. Arnold <
> randall.arnold at texrat.net> wrote:
>
>   That's another question that requires context.  I doubt the locals
> would see it as failing, even as global community might.  And not to
> nitpick, but failing what?  I agree with Mark: if it's open it's certainly
> not an operational failure... but I can see where some might see
> *philosophical* failure if it didn't meet certain conventions.  And even
> THAT starts up the usual hair-splitting...
>
>  It's Friday.  No hair-splitting for me.  ;)
>
>  Randy
>  Tarrant Makers
>
>
> On April 4, 2014 at 2:24 PM Crawford Comeaux < crawford.comeaux at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>  Would a failing space be one that may be locally successful, but viewed
> negatively in the global hackerspace community?
>
>
>  On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 2:22 PM, Mark Henderson <mhenderson683 at live.com>wrote:
>
>  I define a failed space as one who's no longer in business.  Doors
> closed, memberships cancelled, 100% out of business.
>
>  ------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 4 Apr 2014 12:50:39 -0400
> From: 4phlebas at gmail.com
> To: discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
> Subject: Re: [hackerspaces] Failing/failed hackerspaces
>
>
>  Define failed hackerspace- if a nasty space keeps on chugging along
> through geographical/media clout despite severe issues, is it a successful
> space?
>
>  -sung
>
>
>  On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Jesse Krembs <jessekrembs at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>  Hey Matt
>
>  I would argue that neither the HHH or the L0pht are good examples of
> failed spaces.
>  The HHH was a residence first in my view and just happened to be
> populated by hackertypes.
>  The L0pht predates the modern hackerspaces era, was private and was a
> unique beast, also it  didn't so much as get bought by corporate interests
> and sold out to (or bought in).
>
>  3rd Ward might be better example. (makerspace).
>
>
>
>  On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 12:35 PM, matt <matt at nycresistor.com> wrote:
>
>   > 1.  What are some well known failed spaces to the discussion group,
> and
> > what caused them to fail?
>
>  HHH ( all the things ), L0pht ( purchased by corporate interest ),
> Countless tiny unheard of spaces.
>
>   > 2.  Are there any spaces that are "too big to fail", i.e. too much
> money is
> > invested in the space - so much so that it has become a disservice to
> the
> > community instead of an asset?  What are some of the common mistakes
> > that spaces make that keep them from growing or succeeding?
>
>   Noisebridge.
>
>  I'd ask you this.  Is growth success?  Start with what your own metric
> for success is.  If you are just building a physical edifice to your own
> interest, you've probably already failed.  If you are trying to start a
> movement to support a crusade... again you've failed.  If you are just
> trying to find a group of people you want to hack with... then all you need
> is enough people to be happy and survive.  What keeps people from success
> generally, is failing to identify what their metric for success is.  Or
> trying to do too many things.  You can't be all things to all people.  The
> other big one is believing there is a community to support your goals when
> sometimes there just isn't.  And the last and worst... thinking you can
> turn running a hackerspace into a career.
>
>  > 3.  Has anyone taken failed models and used them as sort of a "this is
> what
> > not to do" list?  Where could I source that info?
>
> http://hackerspaces.org/images/8/8e/Hacker-Space-Design-Patterns.pdf
>
>   > 4.  For people new to this industry, what are some of the common
> > newcomer mistakes in starting up a makerspace/hackerspace that you would
> > have liked to been made aware of so you could have avoided them and
> > saved yourself a massive headache?
>  Trust every member of your space as if they had keys to your home.  If
> you can't do that, you've already failed.
>
>
>
>
>
>   On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Mark Henderson <mhenderson683 at live.com>wrote:
>
>    I have some questions about failed or failing hackerspaces and
> makerspaces.
>
> 1.  What are some well known failed spaces to the discussion group, and
> what caused them to fail?
>
>  2.  Are there any spaces that are "too big to fail", i.e. too much money
> is invested in the space - so much so that it has become a disservice to
> the community instead of an asset?  What are some of the common mistakes
> that spaces make that keep them from growing or succeeding?
>
>  3.  Has anyone taken failed models and used them as sort of a "this is
> what not to do" list?  Where could I source that info?
>
>  4.  For people new to this industry, what are some of the common newcomer
> mistakes in starting up a makerspace/hackerspace that you would have liked
> to been made aware of so you could have avoided them and saved yourself a
> massive headache?
>
>  Thanks!
>
> Mark Henderson
>
>
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>
>  --
> Jesse Krembs
> 802.233.7051
>
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