[hackerspaces] Insurance, liability and kids

Sat Sep 14 20:34:12 CEST 2013

I'd also point out that, according to how often you want to run events
for/with kids, and what kinds of events they are, you can quite likely
partner with an existing kid-serving organization, like a library, even if
you don't want to have, or can't have, kids in your space.

On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 2:27 PM, john lunger <justj1915 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Thank you Will. Your answer is most helpful.
> We will definitely start inquiring about insurance once our Hayward
> Hackerspace finds a space. In terms of the other place, they have placed
> all children's activities at the hackerspace temporarily on hold and I
> spoke to the parents of the kids and we have decided that we didn;t want to
> return there if it is the same landlord. Meaning we will return to the
> hackerspace if they should find another suitable place to hold their
> events. We don't want the kids to experience another run in with the
> landlord again.
>
> What has been the youngest hackerspace visitor?
> What do you do about teenagers?
>
> Carolyn
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* Will Bradley <bradley.will at gmail.com>
> *To:* Hackerspaces General Discussion List <discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org>
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 14, 2013 2:56 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [hackerspaces] Insurance, liability and kids
>
> Oh and remember, safety is a cultural mindset. You can buy all the signs
> and insurance and sign all the waivers you want, but it's *every
> participant's *responsibility to behave safely and call out potential
> hazards before they become a problem. As leaders, it's your responsibility
> to instill this *in* everyone, not to shoulder the burden of ensuring
> safety *for* them.
>
> So if your landlord doesn't get a safe vibe from your operations, he has
> good reason to freak out even if you've covered your asses. We've got the
> opposite problem: people who interrogate us about insurance and being
> bonded (do we need to / should we be bonded? Serious question.) despite our
> community having a very safe mindset and track record.
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 14, 2013 at 2:50 AM, Will Bradley <bradley.will at gmail.com>wrote:
>
> Carolyn, our space (HeatSync Labs in Arizona) allows kids but "treats them
> like adults" -- in other words we don't babysit anyone at any age, if you
> need supervision then your parent must (really, actively) supervise you.
> Our liability waiver has a section for minors which we make the minor sign
> (so they know to be responsible) and the parent sign (so it's legal.) We
> also heavily encourage parents to attend WITH their kids or at least tour
> the place and understand what kinds of dangers are present, so they're
> adequately informed. One parent actually sent her kid to us to do something
> dangerous because she trusted us better than she trusted herself (jee,
> thanks! But it turned out alright.)
>
> Our space is somewhat divided, the front is tables and the back is shop;
> at the entrance to the back we have a sign that says minors must be
> accompanied by an adult.
>
> We've got liability and accident insurance and have told our insurer that
> we do host classes with minors and what kinds of classes we teach. They
> didn't seem to think it was a big deal; I'm sure we're in a similar
> category as summer camps or scouts. The people who freak out most about
> this tend to be "backseat driver" types who have plenty of time to be
> worried and write emails but not much time to actually show up, discuss
> things, research things, or improve things. Our insurer and lawyer
> certainly don't freak out about these things.
>
> If our landlord was making a fuss, I'd coordinate something with the board
> / select group of members to meet with them and discuss any concerns. It's
> important to maintain a good relationship with your business partners so
> they're on your side, if they're freaking out it may be because they
> weren't told about something they consider important. Or maybe they just
> hate kids. I feel you can defuse the situation by explaining the various
> precautions taken; kids aren't necessarily a huge risk especially if the
> parents are there, forms are signed, and insurance is purchased. You can
> get a million dollars of "accidentally blew up the building" insurance for
> cheap, easy way to calm down a landlord. Accident/injury insurance isn't
> too expensive either, just bite the bullet and call.
>
> If you're having trouble finding an insurer, contact me directly and I'll
> refer you to HeatSync's insurers.
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 1:26 AM, rachel lyra hospodar <rachelyra at gmail.com
> > wrote:
>
> hi carolyn,
>
> 1. Have you heard of mothership hacker moms?  it's a hackerspace in the
> east bay for moms (and other people), with childcare.  I don't know how
> much is about moms hacking and how much is about kids hacking, but they
> probably have some good info for you.
>
> 2. Insurance, etc is the details. Don't sweat the small stuff, but do get
> insurance. You'll be able to, it will just take, uh, doing so. Most
> commercial landlords wouldn't be so lax about it, and then scream in your
> face when they remember that they forgot.
>
> 3. sudo room's landlord is unusually insane.
>
> 4. doing a project on a large enough scale to require renting space will
> usually bring you into contact with some insane people.
>
> 5. rubin is a dick (hi rubin!), but if you are hoping to do any organizing
> of a hackerspace i hope you do it from your own email address, or one that
> is designed to be shared (eg outreach at hayhackers.com). It is less
> confusing and will help keep narrow minded hackers from underestimating you.
>
> 6. people who underestimate you are wrong.
>
> R.
>
>
> On 9/4/2013 3:57 PM, john lunger wrote:
>
>
> We were visitors of this particular hackerspace last night so I don;t
> know the exact details of things in term of whose name is on the
> nonprofit incorporating forms or even if it is nonprofit incorporated at
> all.
> I am actually thinking of starting a hackerspace myself and wanted it to
> be kid friendly.
> When I say kid friendly I mean separate rooms for the adult stuff (all
> the dangerous tools/chemicals/ewaste) and the kids stuff (tables,
> chairs, soldering irons, sparkfun electronic kits, popsicle sticks, glue
> gun, glitter, Legos, Snap Circuits, Squishy Circuits etc (Parents would
> be required to stay with the children).
>
> Would insurance be more feasible with this kind of set up instead? Could
> we get separate insurance policies for each space. One for the adult
> section/one for the kids section? I would love for them to have a common
> area which would only have couches, tables, chairs, musical instruments
> but not sure after last night how that would work out because they you
> would have to worry about fingerprinting/ of random adults interacting
> with minors.
>
> Our group is moving much more slowly and methodically than other
> hackerspaces because of the involvement of children. We are going to try
> and dot our i's and cross our t's and deal with all the steps needed for
> everything to be covered if that is possible.
>
> So that is why I am asking all these questions. But given what happened
> last night I having 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 6th thoughts about starting one at
> all.
>
> You can check our sad website at www.hayhackers.org
>
> Carolyn
>
>
>
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-- 
-Will
www.partsandcrafts.org
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