[hackerspaces] Hackers, feminism, and bullying

[Matt Joyce]

I think I was pretty clear that if someone can't get along with people
in your space they need to go.

Regardless of who they are and their opinions.

On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 11:16 AM, Tim Saylor <tim.saylor at gmail.com> wrote:
> You said: "If members cannot do that, they should not be members.  You
> cannot change people without them first wanting to change."
>
> Yes, they should be able to disagree and still get along.  But if they
> can't, and they won't stop causing problems, do you kick out the asshole or
> do you let the asshole intimidate away the people they disagree with?
>
> On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:30 PM, Matt Joyce <matt at nycresistor.com> wrote:
>>
>> Not what I said at all.
>>
>> There's nothing wrong with people being different from you.  Be they
>> women, gay, or straight white men.
>>
>> And there's nothing wrong with people disagreeing with each other.
>>
>> The problem is when people are unable to have a dialogue on their own
>> and accept each others differences.
>>
>> People shouldn't have to "change".  They should simply be willing to
>> listen and learn.  Everyone in a hackerspace should meet that criteria
>> first and foremost.
>>
>> -Matt
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Tim Saylor <tim.saylor at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Yep, agreed.  And if you're not willing to take the step of informing
>> > people
>> > that their actions are unacceptable and they have to change or leave
>> > (and
>> > thus deciding what actions are unacceptable), your space becomes a
>> > clubhouse
>> > for assholes.
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:07 PM, Matt Joyce <matt at nycresistor.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 9:47 AM, Tim Saylor <tim.saylor at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > But you probably want a hackerspace not full of assholes.  If you
>> >> > don't
>> >> > deal
>> >> > with the community aspect of your space and try to proactively solve
>> >> > drama
>> >> > and interpersonal relations, the assholes will win and take over your
>> >> > space.
>> >> > And then it dies, or at best stagnates and becomes a clubhouse.
>> >>
>> >> Some of the biggest assholes I have met in the hacker community are
>> >> the people first in line to try and pro-actively 'solve' drama.  They
>> >> are the gasoline of flame wars, thriving on drama wherever they may
>> >> find it.  Being pro-active is by itself worthless.
>> >>
>> >> Personally, I feel that conflict resolution is only achievable when
>> >> membership is capable of respecting each other, and feeling
>> >> comfortable enough with each other to have an open dialogue in which
>> >> both parties are willing to first forgive, then accept each others
>> >> differences.
>> >>
>> >> If members cannot do that, they should not be members.  You cannot
>> >> change people without them first wanting to change.
>> >>
>> >> -Matt
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Discuss mailing list
>> >> Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
>> >> http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > @tsaylor
>> > http://www.timsaylor.com/
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > Discuss at lists.hackerspaces.org
>> > http://lists.hackerspaces.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
>
> --
> @tsaylor
> http://www.timsaylor.com/